Digital background help, please

[windsprite]

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/2957/p2191531700ak5.jpg

Last year I took a quick snapshot of my friends with a bounced flash. The background was rather busy, but I liked the expressions and lighting and have been wanting to do something more with the shot. I'm still working on it, but I thought I'd get some feedback before I went any farther.

I made my own background in PSE. Do you think it works? Does the hair look terribly unnatural? I have been using a feathered erase tool on it. Is there a better way?

I've tried a square crop and a vertical crop (thumbnails below). Which of these three versions do you think work and which don't? (On the two crops below, I will probably clone out the bit of the man's arm on the left-hand side.)

I'm not too worried about the color right now, as I will see how it prints out and adjust from there.

Any other suggestions or comments would be very helpful. I'm a total newbie at this. :smile:

Thanks,
Julie

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/4581/p2191531squarejw8.th.jpg (http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2191531squarejw8.jpg)

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/986/p2191531200x250vc6.th.jpg (http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2191531200x250vc6.jpg)

[Hokuto]

Last year I took a quick snapshot of my friends with a bounced flash. The background was rather busy, but I liked the expressions and lighting and have been wanting to do something more with the shot. I'm still working on it, but I thought I'd get some feedback before I went any farther.

I made my own background in PSE. Do you think it works? Does the hair look terribly unnatural? I have been using a feathered erase tool on it. Is there a better way?

Well, it's certainly a winsome shot, Julie, and deserves the work you've put into it. The extraction looks fine to me, and I wouldn't have even thought about the hair if you hadn't told me. SFAIK, the standard procedure in PS in this case would be to use the Extract tool (under the filters menu, obviously). But it looks like you've already done a great job. I personally don't care for the background color here (a tad too dull, IMO), but as you said, the color can be changed.

[windsprite]

Hmm, I don't think I have an Extract tool. I'm still using PSE 2.0.

When I said I wasn't going to worry about the color yet, I meant the skin tones. I'm very open to suggestions about the background--color, texture, anything! I kept the background conservative because I didn't want the extraction to be too obvious, but I see what you mean about it being dull. I changed it to a more bluish tone--still not perfect, but better--and I'll post it later along with other changes, if I get any more suggestions.

I forgot to mention the reason I was working on this image. Both the husband and wife are former students of mine. Several years ago I tutored her in English and him in Japanese. At the time, she was also a student at the English conversation school where he taught, and that's how they met. They now live in the U.S., and I snapped this shot last year when they were in Japan visiting her parents.

Anyway, he is a cartoonist and he drew this wonderful caricature of my husband and me as a 'thank you' present when they left Japan, so I was thinking I'd like to send them a similarly personal gift in return.

Thanks for taking the time to comment, Norm.

Julie

[Hokuto]

At the time, she was also a student at the English conversation school where he taught, and that's how they met.

Hmm, that's how my wife and I met, too.
:shy:

[windsprite]

Hmm, that's how my wife and I met, too.
:shy:
Heh heh. The truth comes out. :naughty:

Well, it makes a nice story to tell when people ask--and they do ask, don't they!

My story is less romantic, and harder to summarize. I was staying with a friend and her family, and her step-brother, whom I had never met before, came home for New Year's vacation. The whole family is into gambling of all sorts, and he was studying the horse racing papers, and my friend asked if I had ever been to the track. I hadn't, so she set us up for the next day, and we spent our first date at the betting track--on Christmas day, no less! It was fun, but as I say, not exactly a storybook beginning . . . .

Julie

[Henk Peter]

I am sure they will like the portrait Julie, the smiling faces take all the attention of the the observer and not the b/g. You did a neat job, last year I have been working on a passport photo of my late father in law that he needed for his ID card and I tried to replace the b/g so I know it is a hard to get a decent result. I vote for the square crop, with a b/g with a little blue in it. Thanks for sharing.

[Henk Peter]

It was fun, but as I say, not exactly a storybook beginning

Huh? You won the first price!:D

[windsprite]

Huh? You won the first price!:D
No, no, my husband did! :D :D

Edit: Oh, yes, I forgot we were talking about photography. :doh:

Yes, replacing a background is hard work. Somehow it never looks quite natural. You say you like the square crop best, and I think one reason is that it doesn't show much of the bkgd. There's just too much dead space in the original crop.

Thanks for sharing (your opinion), Henk!

Julie

[Luke]

Julie, at this size I do not see anything wrong with the hair. I think you did a great job. I like the square crop too but I would suggest to remove the bit of the man's shirt sleeve that is showing above the woman's shoulder.
Luc

[Bill Gordon]

Hi Julie
I have looked and relooked at your image, read the comments and I like the photo just as it is. The Green background compliments the other colours and Printed up I am sure your friends will love it nicely mounted and framed!!

[dsmithnc]

Julie, I agree with what others have said. I'd have never even thought about the hair if you hadn't mentioned it. The background works very well.

Dick

[windsprite]

Luc, Bill, and Dick, thanks for your comments. I'm glad to know the hair is not too noticable. I will work on it just a bit more, in case I decide to blow up the shot any larger.

Luc, I will definitely be cloning out that bit of arm, thanks.

Bill, I did try hard to get a color that didn't clash with the colors of the clothes. Thanks for noticing.

I made up a side-by-side comparison with the blue background, and I wonder if anybody has an opinion on it. Better? Worse? No different? Other suggestions?

Julie

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/4939/p2191531sidebysideji3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[assafx]

i liked the blue better.
if it was the real background i would add to this blue around 1.1 in gamma and changing the levels a tiny bit so it will look a tiny bit lighter.
but it looks good as it is.

Assaf

[Hokuto]

Looks to me like you're going to the "dark side," Julie. Just my irresponsible 2￥ worth, but the first one reminded me of olive drab, kinda military (I assume you were trying something to match the woman's shirt), while the blue is far darker than my taste would permit; makes it look depressing (IMHO). I'd lighten it up quite a bit to reflect the obvious cheer that's in their faces. If not white, maybe something very light pinkish to match the reds in the picture?

[Garry Frankel]

I will add my voice to the others. Just don't tell anyone what you did and no one will notice. Very nice work.

[JamesD]

Julie,

There hasn't been much response to your question about the crop. So I'll throw in my two cents worth.

I find the top (horizontal) picture way wider than warranted. There is nothing on the left or right flank that contributes anything to the picture (to my eye).

The vertical crop is very tight on "what matters" (the three faces) and I want to like it, but my very perverse mind sees pictures like that as having "disembodied arms," in that you can't follow them down from the shoulder - they just poke into the frame from out of nowhere; they could be someone else's arms! (Is that just too weird? Or does anybody else see stuff like that?)

So, of the three, I would go with the square crop, leaving only to take out that bit of his shirt showing above her shoulder.

Jim

[windsprite]

i liked the blue better.
if it was the real background i would add to this blue around 1.1 in gamma and changing the levels a tiny bit so it will look a tiny bit lighter.
but it looks good as it is.
Thanks for your suggestion, Assaf. I don't have the slightest idea what "gamma" is, but I tried lightening the background in levels. (I hope that was what you meant!) The result is posted below.

Looks to me like you're going to the "dark side," Julie. Just my irresponsible 2￥ worth, but the first one reminded me of olive drab, kinda military (I assume you were trying something to match the woman's shirt), while the blue is far darker than my taste would permit; makes it look depressing (IMHO). I'd lighten it up quite a bit to reflect the obvious cheer that's in their faces. If not white, maybe something very light pinkish to match the reds in the picture?
The first brownish background wasn't especially matched to anything. I started out with a color (I forget which) and just moved around the Saturation, Brightness, and Hue sliders until I got something fairly neutral that didn't clash with the clothing or emphasize the extraction. At that time, I also tried bluish, reddish, and purplish backgrounds, but the brown looked best to me. Now I think I like the blue better, but I did lighten it up quite a bit.

I will add my voice to the others. Just don't tell anyone what you did and no one will notice. Very nice work.
Wow, I wasn't really expecting anybody to be fooled, so that's nice to hear. Thanks for looking, Garry.

There hasn't been much response to your question about the crop. So I'll throw in my two cents worth.

I find the top (horizontal) picture way wider than warranted. There is nothing on the left or right flank that contributes anything to the picture (to my eye).

The vertical crop is very tight on "what matters" (the three faces) and I want to like it, but my very perverse mind sees pictures like that as having "disembodied arms," in that you can't follow them down from the shoulder - they just poke into the frame from out of nowhere; they could be someone else's arms! (Is that just too weird? Or does anybody else see stuff like that?)

So, of the three, I would go with the square crop, leaving only to take out that bit of his shirt showing above her shoulder.
I can't argue with a single word you've written, James. I agree that the square crop works best. The only problem is finding a frame for a square photo. I don't believe I've seen one around here, so I guess I'll look into having one made. I appreciate your detailed comments.

Thanks, everybody, for your many helpful commnents. I think I have a better idea of the strengths and weaknesses of the various versions now. It's so hard to see an image objectively after you've been working on it for a long time. :hmm:

Below I have posted the image with a lighter blue background, along with the square crop. I think I'll go with that, unless someone posts to tell me it looks horrible.:D I'll just put the other versions on a CD-R and send it with the framed print, in case the couple like the photo and want to see it with different backgrounds.

So here it is, the final (?) version:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6459/p2191531newlighterblueffo9.jpg

And in case anyone is curious, click here to see the original background:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1631/p4302861700li9.th.jpg (http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p4302861700li9.jpg)

Julie

[shrinkpictures]

Julie - it pretty good to me, The lighter blue BG works well.

Regarding the size, consider cropping it just a tiny bit wider and consider printing it as an 8x10. This is a pretty standard frame size and should not give you any problems sourcing.

[Luke]

The last version, so far - with the brighter blue, is the best for me.

. . . you look less friendly on your new avatar though . . . :eek: . . . :naughty:
Luc

[assafx]

perfect, you read my mind.
i would also crop less but that's up to you.

Assaf

[JamesD]

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6459/p2191531newlighterblueffo9.jpg


Julie

I LIKE IT.

And you know they are going to LOVE IT.

Jim

[Hokuto]

Yep, I also like the lighter blue best.

[windsprite]

Sorry to resurrect this thread from the second page, but I wasn't able to post over the weekend. I'm glad the lighter blue version seems fairly well received. My husband picked that one as well. I think the couple will like it. Too bad the baby is 8 months older than he was in the image :doh:, but that's typical of the way I do things.

To get back to a few of your comments:

Regarding the size, consider cropping it just a tiny bit wider and consider printing it as an 8x10. This is a pretty standard frame size and should not give you any problems sourcing.
I'm not sure I want to go quite that large, but I think you're right that the 4:5 ratio is a good crop for this image. I suppose if I can get a square frame made, I can also have a 4:5 one made, too. Something to consider....

. . . you look less friendly on your new avatar though . . . :eek: . . . :naughty:
Well, Luc, that's what happens when I spend too long agonizing over minor details in my images. :nerd:

Julie <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->