Voice of Customer thread

[Johannes]

Dear Tony and Moderators, as you might know, at Olympus there is a department specially to hear the voice of customers for any feedback, wishes, and demand, it sure will help them to develop more innovative products, both DC and DSLR, do you think we can make a thread for members to express our wishes? :smile:

[ptuk]

Some minor but for me annoying things I'd like to see changed in the E-510's successor:

1) I want to be able to do a one-touch WB without having to have it assigned to the fn button

2) Storing a MyMode setting currently involves delving deep into the menu system. I'd like to be able to do this with a lot fewer key presses.

3) The LiveView button is very easy to hit accidentally. I'd like to see it moved up by the flash button.

On the lens front I'd like a 100-300 fast-ish zoom (f3.5 or f4 @ 300mm). For photographing wildlife in the UK the 50-200 is way too short. Bird photography really needs 400mm or more. At the other extreme, 300mm is a reasonable FL for wild deer but a fast-ish aperture is called for as you're shooting in deeply-shaded woodland and/or at dawn and dusk. F3.5 or f4 gives that bit more speed without compromising mobility in the way that my 300/f2.8 does. It would also be a good lens for outdoor sport photography.

[jebir]

For the E-510, I could add the wish to:Have a useable arrow-pad lock.
If the camera is carried with any of the kit lenses, the arrow keys which first have direct feature functions with subsequent navigation functions, are easily bumbed and settings can be changed inadvertedly. An automatic button lock timer, after not using the camera for a certain period of time, could be implemented. The button lock could be removed simply by a half-press of the shutter button.

Cheers, Jens.

[ksj]

For the E-510, I could add the wish to be able to lock the buttons. If the camera is carried with any of the kit lenses, the arrow keys which first have direct feature functions with subsequent navigation functions, are easily bumbed and settings can be changed inadvertedly.

Cheers, Jens.

I don't have my manual handy, but you can lock the arrow keys so that you need to press OK first to get them to work...

[jebir]

Cool, I never saw that in the manual.

Thanks!

Cheers, Jens

[Henk Peter]

Cool, I never saw that in the manual.

Thanks!

Cheers, Jens

Page 84 of the English manual. Under spanner 1 in the menu you can lock the arrows pad.

[jebir]

Thanks Henk,

I just tried it out but it totally removes the possibility to use the arrowpads as direct buttons which I think is the the worst possible implementation of an arrow-pad lock that they could ever come up with. The dual functions of the arrow pad buttons are the saving grace regarding handling the E-510 in pressed shooting situations so I could never imagine that they could have implemented it like that (that's probably the reason why I didn't pay attention to it in the first place).

So I'll have too keep my wish in this thread with the modification that it should be useful.

Cheers, Jens.

[Latemarch]

I'd like an all red option for the menu and super control panel so it wouldn't wipe out my night vision when doing long exposures at night. And while they're at it maybe an off option to just turn it off on the E-3 as I can just use the top LCD

[jebir]

And while they're at it maybe an off option to just turn it off on the E-3 as I can just use the top LCD
Twisting the screen has that effect?

Cheers, Jens.

[Latemarch]

Twisting the screen has that effect?

Cheers, Jens.

True, but then you can't review your shots.
Sometimes you'd just like the super control panel to not be there......in fact most of the time I'd like the super control panel to not be there.

[windsprite]

True, but then you can't review your shots.
Sometimes you'd just like the super control panel to not be there......in fact most of the time I'd like the super control panel to not be there.
You can turn off the super control panel by pressing the INFO button. You will still be able to review your images as usual.

[Derek Wright]

I would like to see some articles written to describe the philosophy of the camera, how the AF works and how best to exploit it.

When to use the various noise options.

Recommended settings for optimum out of camera Jpegs
Description of the various styles eg Natural, Portrait, Vivid (what does it imply - how is it achieved etc etc

There are many neat features in the camera - some obscured by terminology , they were built in to the camera - let us all be told how to fully exploit them or which to ignore until one is fully up to speed.

A start to this type of help was supplied on-line for the E1 when Oly gave optimum settings for out of camera Jpegs.

[OCULUS NY]

Dear Tony and Moderators, as you might know, at Olympus there is a department specially to hear the voice of customers for any feedback, wishes, and demand, it sure will help them to develop more innovative products, both DC and DSLR, do you think we can make a thread for members to express our wishes? :smile:

Is that not a bit presumptuous? Let them do their job by finding us. I know other marques (one we share) monitor these web sites closely, and actually intervene directly if safety is an issue.

I'd let them wade through the whining....for "perspective." :nerd:

Ray Hull

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I wouldnt be surprised if they dont have a undercover member here watching the "goings ons"

Jim

[TrapperJohn]

Wade through the whining? Nah, here it is, straight from the horse's mouth.

I'd say add Live A to the E3. Can the popup flash if you have to, Live A is darned handy to have. I don't use it all the time on the 330, but when I do, it's a real advantage. No lag, smooth video, no heating up of the main sensor. With a camera of the E3's stature, a popup flash won't get that much use, most of us will have a 36 or a 50 close at hand.

I'd really love to see an E1 upgrade with the E400's sensor. That's too much to hope for.

Glass - how about a less fast/costly 35-100? I could really use one, but that price... or extend the 50-200 to 100-400? Keep it around $1k, and you'd sell quite a few. I'd ask for a lower cost/fixed focal length UWA, but I just sprung for a 7-14, so never mind.

[Johannes]

Is that not a bit presumptuous? Let them do their job by finding us. I know other marques (one we share) monitor these web sites closely, and actually intervene directly if safety is an issue.

I'd let them wade through the whining....for "perspective." :nerd:

Ray Hull

Ray, we are not shouting at them and give orders to them, we just voice out our wish here in a consolidated thread, thats what I meant to, not presumptuous :smile:

[Johannes]

Now, my wish, I want a small angle finder 1:1, small for the E-bodies :smile:

[250swb]

I often laugh at the 'I want the camera to be designed for ME...' type threads on the other forum. Here are two of my own which perhaps could happen one day.

The first is to pack all the design technology of the E3, and a bit more, into a body the size of the E510. I'm sure this will happen sooner rather than later and imagine Oly are working on something like it for the next generation of DSLR?

Voigtlander have been making great use of the ability nowadays to design cameras for relatively small production runs. Not blockbusters but things like rangefinder and SLR cameras that take Leica lenses or other makes like Pentax etc. Now wouldn't Olympus's own rangefinder body be a good idea? Stripped down like the M8, 4/3rds sensor, perhaps different mounts for Leica, Nikon, Olympus legacy etc? It would be a great way to use prime lenses, and perhaps Oly could make some new ones as well....?

[Latemarch]

You can turn off the super control panel by pressing the INFO button. You will still be able to review your images as usual.

Untill you touch another button like ISO and bang! there it is again. I'm just asking for a simple menu item that leaves it off.......all the time. Or the all red option, I could live with that.

Upgrade for the E-3a. Let us have an option for the mirror to stay up in live view and do the focusing either with contrast or manual only. In other words decouple the mirror and shutter. This would allow fast bursts of the shutter and no lag in live view. This requires a hardware fix as the mirror and shutter are currently mechanicaly linked.

Oly, how about a nice rangefinder body that takes the 4/3 lenses. No mirror at all. Viewfinder, optical with true rangefinder action. Superimposed led composition lines for various lenses and zoom. Small, compact, quiet and simple. Not a lot of bells and whistles.....Leica-like.
Make the rear screen articulated (Live View) and really thin by using organic led display of greater than 640X480 resolution. And a couple of nice prime pancake lenses f2 or better to go with it and the E410.

Well, I can dream can't I?;)

[Riley]

I wouldnt be surprised if they dont have a undercover member here watching the "goings ons"

Jim

too right
ive been challenged by a Panasonic tech rep over at Steves Forum for my views on the extent/commitment of Panasonic to replacing dud 2/3" Sony sensors in LC1 cameras

do they look in
....you bet....
is it only Olympus, i really doubt it

[lendur2]

Responding to Derek Wright. He would like some lessons on using various features. When I came to the part about filtering and sharpening, I recalled an exhaustive article recently read dealing with that very thing. I thought it was Wrotniak <http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/tech/index.html>, but apparently not. He advocate turning filtration off till ISO 800 (both inclusive and exclusive); then LOW on 800 to 3200. Sharpening needed to be low also, he said. He did a matrix of each setting; then another using a different subject having different characteristics. Hope that helps. Maybe someone out there saw the same article and will mention the who and where.

[Derek Wright]

Thanks for the pointer - however my point is that I would like Olympus to provide the information about the camera in one place and the information to be based on how the camera does work (and should work).

By searching the web I can find information that has been derived by observation of how the camera works and then making deductions as to what should be happening. Some times this "found" information is good, sometimes it is only partially correct and still requires verification.

By the way I am extremely grateful to all the people that publish their findings, however I am sure that would also benefit by being provided with the information I seek so that they can base their usage information on source information.

[e_dawg]

My first wish is for better noise / DR performance on their sensors. At the very least, give us the sensor from the E-3 and put it in the E-4x0/5x0 models. The design work has already been done. The costs have already been spent. This is the achilles heel for an otherwise excellent camera.

My second wish is for a better AF system in the E-4x0/5x0 cameras. I'm not as concerned about having only 3 points as I am about low light AF capability. Quite frankly, it's not very good. Even with the ridiculously annoying flash strobe AF assist, focus lock is unreliable at the same amount of light the Rebel XTi and the D40 can achieve AF lock.

[Knight Palm]

Panasonic has three O.I.S. Modes, where currently only the Mode 1 is supported on Olympus cameras.
It would also be convenient to actually be able to use the aperture ring on some of the Leica D lenses.
Panasonic > O.I.S. Modes > | Enable All | Mode 1 only | Disable All |
Panasonic > Aperture ring > | Enable | Disable |

[Johannes]

Will the E-420 features available on the next E-3 firmware update?

[Knight Palm]

Panasonic has Contrast Detect Auto Focus for some of their lenses.
I would like to see those mutually functioning on each other companies camera bodies.

Olympus has CDAF on only few lenses.
I would like to see that functionality expanded to all the Olympus Zuiko Digital lenses. Well, at least to the current shipping ones.

[Knight Palm]

Change this in the next firmware to become OneShot White Balance.

Who needs DOF preview on both the Fn and the dedicated DOF button?

This would enhance the use of the CUSTOM RESET mode, and most users would initially struggle with programming the Fn button to OneShot WB, without reading the manual first.

It would make the out-of-the box first experience more pleasant, and less frustrating for new users! Less doubters to return the camera back to the shop after less initial struggle.

[tspore]

I believe that Olympus does take this site very serious for many reasons. Mostly because of the quality of posters on this site. It is not full of trolls, and people actually spend time attempting to figure out if its them or if its the camera. Which really is different than other sites.
We have had in the past when people have specific issues, high up executives working to control specific issues, and I am really amazed at the feedback I get from the corporation.
So to have specific threads, are ok, but really Olympus will not comment about anything that is in development.

As for specific articles on topics we do try to keep those relevant, but ideas have to come from you guys, because I cannot devote a ton of time to the site, and don't know what people need. Really we have a vast area of information from the members here who know more than I. So there is a strong userbase which we need to better utilize.

I have a wish list just like everyone else for new products, but really we have to wait and see what they will do. I mean their are a coulple of lenses I would love to have, but right now they still have a few to get to the public. the ones on the road map.

Will the E-420 features available on the next E-3 firmware update?
What features on the E-420 would you like to see in the E-3? I can always ask, but until firmware comes to life, usually can't say, or I won't know. :D

[Johannes]

The new focusing function... face detection etc... also the adjustable color balance of the LCD monitor ........:D

I also want them to build a small 90 degree 1:1 angle finder :D:D

[nomix]

I wouldnt be surprised if they dont have a undercover member here watching the "goings ons"

Jim
Of course they have. Big business sees sites as this as something they need to monitor to see what's up in 'their' community.

Let me put it this way. I used to frequent a board dedicated to pirating a big BBC programe. Illegal as HELL.

The producer of the show has mentioned the site several time in blogs "...right after the show was over, me and the production team headed over to xxxx.xxx to see how the reception of this new season was [...]". BBC has had several accounts there and they've replied to suggestions through that board.

What does this tell us? It tells us that BBC understood that they profited from following the feedback they got from their most dedicated fans.

Does Olymus have people who monitor what happens here? Of course. If there's more than one, they're probably subscribers.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

To put Dereks & Tonys comments together:

Derek wrote: however my point is that I would like Olympus to provide the information about the camera in one place and the information to be based on how the camera does work (and should work).

Tony wrote: Mostly because of the quality of posters on this site. It is not full of trolls, and people actually spend time attempting to figure out if its them or if its the camera
end quotes,


If we had access to the information that Derek mentioned, with the attitude that Tony voiced, then a lot of us newbies would be better able to sort out issues. I have been trying to decide IF I have an AF problem or not. I have yet to see a razor sharp picture form my E510, like I've seen from other posters with the same camera. I've never had a DSLR or AF before and am reasonably sure its just me and technique. If a better understanding of how it operates was out there we might be able to better our abilities.

Jim

[Johannes]

And, if Olympus can make an attachment like Leica M which is for holding a second lens under the tripod thread, it will be great :D

http://en.leica-camera.com/assets/media/img2073.jpghttp://en.leica-camera.com/assets/media/img2072.jpg

[nomix]

Oh, forgot to say what I want from Santa.

Firmware update for the E-400! Let me turn of the focus assist flash. Darned I hate that.

As for the smaller cameras, this is a big thingy I want. Weather sealing! Pentax has just sent out an entry level body with some sort of weather sealing, the K200D. If they implemented the same effective weather sealing of the E-1 and E-3 on all models, they would end up selling more cameras than God!

The E-3 stands really out of the crowds. Why? Three things you can tell someone in the shop:
- IS
- Liveview with flip out screen
- Weather sealing

Except that, there's nothing the E-3 does that the a 40D, a D300, an A700 or a K20D does. Actually, the 40D and D300 gives you more frames per second, and if you're a pixel peeper - they will give you a tincy-wincy bit better IQ at ISO800 and above.

Which also transfers to the cheaper models, at least right now.

Olympus, listen to me right now. Weather seal all your cameras, and give the sales rep at the electrics shop a bottle of water to pour over the demonstration models when they're showing them to customers. Then shoot a 4 second burst of 14 shots and show it to them.

Then you've sold the camera to many a gadget freak..

[E B]

I have been trying to decide IF I have an AF problem or not. I have yet to see a razor sharp picture form my E510, like I've seen from other posters with the same camera. I've never had a DSLR or AF before and am reasonably sure its just me and technique.
Jim

Well, you can post a sample image, state what the camera settings were and what you did to post process the image and then ask for opinions.

[E B]

You mean like the VA-1?

http://asia.olympus-global.com/imsg/dslr/accessories/optical_adapter/

[e_dawg]

Firmware update for the E-400! Let me turn of the focus assist flash. Darned I hate that.

Yes, that flash-burst AF assist is the most annoying and disruptive thing ever invented. Not only do your subjects hate you, other patrons in the same general area do as well. I think i had the whole section of the lounge stare at me when I was taking a pic of some friends in the dark. The damn thing still would achieve AF lock despite blinding a quarter of the room. i had to resort to manual focus anyways, which is really hard with that small viewfinder in minimal light.

Why Olympus can't nix that in favour of an AF-lamp based system like Nikon and others use is beyond me.

[e_dawg]

Another feature that needs to be improved are the picture mode settings:

1. There isn't enough difference between Vivid, Natural, and Muted

2. There isn't enough adjustment range on the Contrast, Sharpness, and Saturation sliders -- especially contrast, and the effect contrast has on the tone curve is limited to one area. It should be able to change the slope of the tone curve in both the upper shadow / lower midtone region and the upper midtone / lower highlight region.

3. In general, the tone curves are way too steep regardless of what setting you use. The fact that I have to set the camera to Muted and -2 Contrast to get a usable tone curve that's more than 5 stops of dynamic range is ridiculous. Sure, some people like it super contrasty with bright, bold colours. That's what the Vivid picture mode is for. Natural should actually be somewhat natural, don't you think? And Muted should actually be somewhat muted too, no? Or am I asking too much? :doh:

[Johannes]

You mean like the VA-1?

http://asia.olympus-global.com/imsg/dslr/accessories/optical_adapter/

Yes, but shorter, smaller, no need 2X, no need 360 degrees rotatable ... a compact one for E-4xx :D
The VA-1 is too big on a E-4xx and it looks like an elephant ......

[tspore]

Thanks for the pointer - however my point is that I would like Olympus to provide the information about the camera in one place and the information to be based on how the camera does work (and should work).

By searching the web I can find information that has been derived by observation of how the camera works and then making deductions as to what should be happening. Some times this "found" information is good, sometimes it is only partially correct and still requires verification.

By the way I am extremely grateful to all the people that publish their findings, however I am sure that would also benefit by being provided with the information I seek so that they can base their usage information on source information.
Well in small that's what I am trying to do. Really the relationship between 4/3 photo and Olympus is very good now. Usually anything which is published on info from Olympus is first checked for accuracy.
So it just takes a ton of time to do it all. I can't afford to spend to much time on site stuff. So I am hoping with the regular columns of the magazine we will have more reliable info.

[cifcap]

For the next body PLEASE offer a grip and AC-1 compatability. Many people felt the HLD-3 was pricey, but I bought it and it's rarely off my E-300. Perhaps they can bundle it with the body? :hmm: I know the E-3 has a grip, but I'm looking for a mid-range body for around the $1,000 range.

JW

[Hans]

I wish they would stop loading these cameras up with every bell and whistle you folks think of and just make a 10MP E1 with a large VF, Kodak CCD, metal body, weather seals, and IS.
Simple is good. :smile:

[Johannes]

Olympus, please make all E-bodies image quality the same, IQ functions the same.

The only difference in bodies and price should be only smaller or bigger oe weather proofing .... same as different cameras using same film and same lens .... Wish Olympus heard this .....

[tspore]

I think that's a bad idea, all the bodes would cost a lot more. The sensor is a big part of the cost from what I have been told.

[Forge]

Big problem with that is that IQ would never improve then either...

[tri-x]

Dear Olympus, please can you make a simple firmware change to the E3 ... it won't take more than a man-day to implement and test:

Please add 3 x 2 stop and 5 x 2 stop AE bracket to the list.
This would make the world of difference for HDR (High Dynamic Range) image mapping.

[tspore]

I like that one.

[Johannes]

I think that's a bad idea, all the bodes would cost a lot more. The sensor is a big part of the cost from what I have been told.

Tony, the E-420 seems using the same sensor of E-3 and without the prism, metal body, swivel LCD, IS, better AF sensor, extra WB sensor...... etc etc ... the kit with 14-42mm only cost HK$ 3,999.- The E-3 body is HK$ 12,990.- where the HK$ 8, 991.- goes to?

[tspore]

Its not the same sensor. Close but not as good.
a little less DR. Contrast AF, etc.

[Johannes]

Its not the same sensor. Close but not as good.
a little less DR. Contrast AF, etc.

I see, thanks for the info. Tony ~~ :smile::smile::smile:

[Riley]

1/ OVF sizes
we used to make cameras with big bright finders on small bodies
now we make cameras with tiny finders on bigger bodies. That should be reversed. Now that we know its possible to do better, nothing should stop us from doing this

2/ Manual Exposure Control Systems
We used to make cameras with manual control as a priority, today manual is secondary to automatic functions. if the system can give me automatic analysis as a basis, i should be able to use those numbers to work out how i want to control this image without my eye leaving the OVF. My solution is called a camera meter, and almost every film camera had one

3/ Analogue Controls
To assist my manual control of a shot really requires something akin to analogue control, a speed dial, an aperture control. We used to have aperture rings on lenses, but no Olympus lenses have that anymore. My solution is to replace the mode dial with a speed dial, and place the fly by wire aperture ring on a turret that supports the lens mount and projects from a narrower body. This instead of two wheels where inevitably i have trouble finding one or the other. All i need besides shutter and aperture controls are WB and iso, taken care of with 2 control wheels on the rewind side of the top deck. I call this being a photographer, and i remember when i found it so much fun.

4/ Noise and DR
Combating noise has been a big problem for 4/3rds on its smaller sensor itteration. While technology moves on and assists, it also benefits competitors. My solution for noise depends heavily on vastly more camera processing.

Multiple images a number of stops apart are taken at the as near the same instant as possible, the images are compared with each other by an incamera algorithm. As detail remains in the same place, but aberrations like noise will move around. The real detail can be left, while noise is removed, and a final merged noiseless image is revealed. This is far superior to pixel binning which removes detail and eventually everything else, and will improve DR where the exposures are some stops appart.

[Derek Wright]

Recently I realised that I did not know how to rapidly switch between the different AF target modes without delving into the menu system on the E3.

I have the Button delay set to 8 seconds and use of the mode and other buttons taught me to use the front dial to change one function and the rear dial to change another function.

However when I get to use the [...] AF target button, the dials change the position of the sensitive focus points but not the mode.

To change the mode from all points to dynamic diamond or to single point I have to press and hold the [...] button while rotating the dials.

Because this action did not conform with the way the rest of the button dial user interface works I did not find out about this feature until I asked about rapid switching between modes on another forum.

So what do I want to see on the E3.

An additional menu line defining what functions the dials have after the [...] button has been pressed, so that one can allocate to the two dials two of the three focus point related functions eg:
focus mode
vertical movement of the focus point
horizontal focus point pattern

or even to have the press and hold function described in the manual so that I could understand it would have been a help.