Camera Topics Trying to get to the bottom of the E-3 AF issues

[Johnmcl7]

I'd like to continue the previous thread on the E-3 AF which was the most constructive one I've seen on getting to the bottom of the E-3's AF problems:

http://forum.fourthirdsphoto.com/showthread.php?t=40266

I've sent my camera away for repair and it's back again but no different, it can still confirm focus when it's not in focus. A member of this forum has found a repeatable test which shows the problem which is as follows:

- Set the E-3 (S-AF, can't fire shutter unless focus confirmed) up on a tripod with any lens, preferably a telephoto which can't focus closely pointing it the other end of the room or something distant
- Pick up something to place in front of the lens, not blocking it entirely but within the minimum focus distance where the lens can't focus
- Half press the shutter button to get the E-3 to confirm focus on other end of room
- Lift of the shutter and immediately place the piece of paper, your hand or whatever in front of the lens and then press the shutter fully down

The camera should attempt to focus then give up as it is unable to confirm focus and therefore should not fire the shutter. However this doesn't always happen, if you keep repeating it the camera will confirm focus and fire the shutter without actually moving a lens element. My normal mode of operation is centre point only, I tried it with all AF points and the incorrect focus confirmation occurred more often.

I tried the same test with my other 4/3's cameras (I was using the 35-100mm) however none of them would confirm focus and refused to fire the shutter.

This may seem a completely pointless test as it's not something you'd do in real life however the point is it shows this E-3 (and others) can confirm focus when they shouldn't. Additionally it seems to match up with my shooting, I lose up to 1/5 of my pictures due to the focus being out and that's about the same amount of times the E-3 incorrectly confirms focus while testing. In the previous thread there was some discussion on this problem being to do with timing between pressing the shutter half and fully down again which this test seems to confirm as it happens more often when the shutter is pushed fully down straight away.

One obvious difference between the E-3 and other cameras I tried is that when the object is placed in front of the E-3 it either confirms focus straight away or immediately starts moving the lens elements in an attempt to focus. With the other bodies they just seemed to stop for a moment entirely before moving the focus all the way back and forth then finally giving up. It seems the E-3 AF is trying to be more intelligent and making a guess at where to focus but it's hard to pin down as even with the camera set the same way it can focus properly one shot and miss it the next.

I have tried the repair approach and that's not got me anywhere, there's quite a few others in the same boat. I've also tried opening a dialogue with Olympus but no matter what I say I get the same two line answer to send it back for repair. I have had a good look at the market when my E-3 was away but aside from the large financial hit there's nothing else out there which can quite replace my E-3 setup.

It would be interested to see if others can repeat the E-3 misfocus above and whether that camera body has been in for repair or not.

Thanks,
John

[Henk Peter]

John, you won't get many responses here as some with an E-3 do not have focusing problems (or don't know they have).

Others who have faulty E-3's have left this forum because the high level of denial of the problem and because of the censorship on the former threads on this subject.(The thread you link to is locked) In fact I too have stopped being active and a moderator here for the same reasons and now occasionally lurk.

I know of two former members that have sent back their E-3 for the third time after receiving it back with exactly the same problem.

I will do the test with my E-3 next weekend and will PM you the results on the UK E-system user group.

[Stubb]

I sold all of my Olympus gear a few months ago because of the focus problem and occasionally stop by 4/3-photo to see what's going on. You can read my experiences here.

Cheers,

Andreas

[windsprite]

Just like John and Andreas, I sent my E-3 back for repair recently, but there was no improvement in the AF. I included my 50/2, which shows the most severe front focus of all my lenses but is fine on other bodies. Both E-3 and lens came back from Olympus marked "focus adjusted." The viewfinder unit had also been replaced due to VF tilt, and the battery grip had been repaired due to a power cutout problem which was making the camera freeze up several times each session.

I checked the AF by taking 25 shots of my dogs, a subject on which it is easy to recognize any misfocus. The first 9 were good, but 12 of the last 16 were front focused, some by several inches. This is typical of my experience: accuracy often starts out okay, then it goes downhill.

The E-3 was in the shop for almost a month, and in the meantime I used the E-510. I cannot tell you what a relief it was to point a camera at something and just have it work, and in much more challenging conditions than those under which I tested the E-3.

The E-3 is my fifth E-system body (and my 7th Olympus digital camera), and I have never had what I would consider a serious complaint with any Oly equipment. I would have a hard time believing focus issues existed myself, had I not experienced them firsthand--on two separate bodies, no less. I imagine John and most of the others who have been experiencing misfocus with the E-3 would say something similar. By this time, though, anybody should be able to see that there are some serious problems which need to be discussed out in the open and not dismissed as user error or "learning curve" issues.

John, I tried the test and got results similar to yours. Nearly 100% of the time I can get my E-3 to take a blurry picture of my hand when it's just a few inches from the front element of my lens. This shouldn't be possible with the 50-200, S-AF, and release priority off. As a matter of fact, it's not possible on my E-510.

I don't know if this is related to the focus problems we have been having or not. I would imagine it's rare for an experienced user to just stab down on the shutter button like in the test. Also, it doesn't explain why our cameras work some days and not others. It doesn't explain why the misfocus is almost invariably to the front. It doesn't explain the times when some of us can't get an accurate focus lock on a subject no matter how many times we feather the shutter button, even though another E-system camera locks onto the same subject with no problem.

The test does show that in some circumstances, at least, the E-3 will happily fire, even when nothing is in focus. It would be interesting to know if all E-3s react the same way to the test. I tend to think they do. Again, I don't know if this means anything in real-life shooting, but it might be another piece in the puzzle.

The images below are a sample from the 25 test shots I mentioned at the top of the post. These are just for reference and are not an invitation to discuss settings, expectations, or technique; please remember that the 9 shots before these were correctly focused. Of course the focus was intended to be on the eye, but in the first two it's on the whiskers, and in the third one it's on the tip of the ear. Center point was used, with no recomposing:



And here are some E-510 snaps. Except for #2, the DOF is much narrower here, and the light was lower. Most have been focused and recomposed:

[Johannes]

Julie, sad to hear that your repaired E-3 goes downhill again.
Discussion was halted a while ago on this particular subject, I am one of the three 'J's with focusing problem since the E-3 was new. I am a bit lucky that after firmware updates the E-3 works much better, though not 100% good but keeper rate is higher than before.
I do not know what to say but at least I will not use the word 'poop', another 'J' whom still keep contact with me raised some questions after the camera returned from repair, I still keep close contact with Olympus service Hongkong for further investigation and report to them the voice from customers.
After my grip returned from repair I actually shoot less, much less than before, also I login here much less, but friends still here around, and friendship still standing strong.

[250swb]

The camera should attempt to focus then give up as it is unable to confirm focus and therefore should not fire the shutter. However this doesn't always happen, if you keep repeating it the camera will confirm focus and fire the shutter without actually moving a lens element. My normal mode of operation is centre point only, I tried it with all AF points and the incorrect focus confirmation occurred more often.

Yes, that is what it is supposed to do. The E3 will fire the shutter when the AF has finished working, whether it has a focus lock or not. It is a professional camera so does not stop the photographer getting a shot. And RLS Priority modes are to override even waiting for the AF to finish working. So I don't think this is a test of anything at all.

I think it is this sort of 'test' that got a lot of people ticked off last time. Far from a culture of denial most people were sorry to hear of individuals who had a faulty camera, but couldn't quite understand the constant referral to 'the E3's focusing issues' rather than 'my E3's focusing issues'.

Steve

[bg2b]

I don't have an E-3, being basically happy with the E-1, but I have thought about buying one occasionally. From reading all the stories though, I do feel that there are just too many for it all to be made-up. There has to be some issue with at least some reasonable percentage of cameras.

The whole thing is strikingly similar in spirit to Canon's 1Diii fiasco, with some swearing that something is wrong, and others attributing it all to imagination, incorrect settings, or general user error. The difference is that Canon eventually determined that there was indeed something wrong, made an annoucement, and (more-or-less) fixed it. If Olympus does the same thing with the E-3, I'd probably buy one. But with the current situation, there's the nagging doubt that I'd wind up with a $1400 paper weight, and to me, that's not an acceptable risk.

[e_dawg]

Part of the difference in this case is that Canon's AF issues are with a very, very expensive camera, and is more popular and more used in the professional community than the E-3, and is therefore more embarrassing.

I believe that part of the problem is a function of AF systems that employ many AF points, which requires AF points to be small and precise, and the AF logic to be able to handle many more inputs and be able to have "rules" that know what to do with all these inputs work properly for many more situations.

I don't think that Oly's AF sensors are big enough to detect enough edge contrast in all situations with enough certainty, and its AF logic struggles to make the right decisions in some (but not all) situations (which is why most people are not having problems... they probably tested and engineered the system to work with a few dozen "common" situations).

They might be better off with fewer, larger, and simpler AF sensors. Maybe use a large central sensor that activates with an f/2.8 or faster lens like with the Sonys. This is all IMHO, though, as I really don't know the technical reasons behind this issue.

That said, I have stopped worrying about this stuff as much because most of my shots are fine and my AF works fine in most situations (although not as well as my Nikons in challenging situations). I use the E-3 and wonderful top pro lenses because of the absolutely stunning image quality. If I want better AF and low-light performance, I use my Nikon stuff. I know it's not that helpful to you, but if you need superior AF performance, Oly is a generation behind. You need to get a D300/D700/D3 if AF performance is of paramount importance to you.

But even with the Nikons, you will not be free from AF issues. There will be front/back focus issues, and you will have to use the AF Fine Tune feature on the camera to get some lenses to focus accurately, which is disappointing but not a big deal. The worst problem, though, is that with zoom lenses, you only really optimize for a small range of focal lengths. If you optimize for the long end, you may get front-focus at the wide end, and vice-versa. Being able to fine tune the AF system with each lens is not a cure-all either. AF is not an easy thing to do well. Every manufacturer and every camera has issues. Oly is fortunate in that the AF is generally very accurate when it works properly. That isn't the case with Nikon and Canon, I can assure you that.

[jorgen]

Like bg2b, I also feel that there are just too many cameras with problems - apparently not enough to force Olympus to make a public statement, but certainly enough to make me stay far away from the e-3 (and probably also the soon to be expected mid-tier camera using e-3 autofocus).

[Johnmcl7]

Originally Posted by 250swb

Yes, that is what it is supposed to do. The E3 will fire the shutter when the AF has finished working, whether it has a focus lock or not. It is a professional camera so does not stop the photographer getting a shot. And RLS Priority modes are to override even waiting for the AF to finish working. So I don't think this is a test of anything at all.

I think it is this sort of 'test' that got a lot of people ticked off last time. Far from a culture of denial most people were sorry to hear of individuals who had a faulty camera, but couldn't quite understand the constant referral to 'the E3's focusing issues' rather than 'my E3's focusing issues'.

Steve

You have not understood the test properly nor the setup, the camera is set [/b]not[/b] to fire the shutter unless in focus as I have no interest in blurry out of focus shots. It's nothing to do with the E-3 being a 'professional' camera. Additionally the E-3 does not even attempt to focus, it thinks it is in focus without even checking. None of the other 4/3 cameras do this including the 'professional' E-1.

Unfortunately you've also misunderstood how widespread this problem is, since I wrote in the original post and been looking around Nikon forums I've found numerous people who have had this problem and given up on it to switched to Nikon. There's also quite a few people here including some who have contacted me privately as they've understandably had enough of the way the issue is dealt with. Cameras sent back with this problem in all the main territories have come back with the same fault or worse, replacement cameras demonstrate the same fault and even Olympus own E-3's at trade shows have the problem. This is far more than just a few individual isolated cases.

John

[Johannes]

Before Olympus found a solution to fix the AF problem occurs in some cameras, they will not admit it. Even the viewfinder tilt problem they never say a word about it publicly, but I tell you what, starting a month ago they have replacement VF assemblies with +- 0.3 degrees (and so on) for camera(s) with this fault.

[Johnmcl7]

Originally Posted by e_dawg

But even with the Nikons, you will not be free from AF issues. There will be front/back focus issues, and you will have to use the AF Fine Tune feature on the camera to get some lenses to focus accurately, which is disappointing but not a big deal. The worst problem, though, is that with zoom lenses, you only really optimize for a small range of focal lengths. If you optimize for the long end, you may get front-focus at the wide end, and vice-versa. Being able to fine tune the AF system with each lens is not a cure-all either. AF is not an easy thing to do well. Every manufacturer and every camera has issues. Oly is fortunate in that the AF is generally very accurate when it works properly. That isn't the case with Nikon and Canon, I can assure you that.

To be quite honest, if Olympus offered to replace my E-3's AF with that from the E-510 I'd take it in a heartbeat and be a happy man. That sounds like an exaggeration but it isn't as when the E-510 (or any of the older bodies) locked focus I knew they were in focus and the photo would be fine. With the E-3 I find myself having to refocus a couple of times (when I noticed the focus has missed) to get a shot or just taking shots a few times to make sure they are in focus.

With regards to the Nikon AF, I don't expect it to be flawless but from what I've read the AF performance is consistent - I've not read any complaints from those who have switched from the E-3 to the D700. However if I at least knew why the E-3 misfocussed and how to avoid it then I could probably live with the fault, it's the fact that I don't know why the E-3 is doing this that is the main problem which is why I started this thread. Ideally if the problem could be narrowed down to something more specific then it's a lot more likely Olympus can fix the problem. At the moment it's still too vague really and I can partially understand why Olympus are unable to repair the fault.

John

'Generally' very accurate AF is no good when the camera will for no apparent reason misfocus on the scene entirely.

[bg2b]

Since I manage OK with an E-1, obviously fantastic AF performance isn't critical to me. But the E-1 is at least consistent. I prefer to have a camera with "worse" AF but whose behavior is predictable than to have one that usually works better but where I'm constantly worrying because occasionally it doesn't.

[250swb]

Quotes from Johnmcl7

the camera is set [/b]not[/b] to fire the shutter unless in focus as I have no interest in blurry out of focus shots.

You cannot set the camera 'not' to fire unless it is in focus, as I said above, it will fire even if it is out of focus 'after the AF has finished working'.

Unfortunately you've also misunderstood how widespread this problem is...

I understand that all the people with a problem gravitate towards forums to rightfully grumble. I understand that the people who don't have a problem tend to keep quiet. Out of all the E3's sold that makes it a lot of people keeping quiet and very few people grumbling.

So before telling me I don't understand do some homework of your own.

Steve

[Johnmcl7]

Originally Posted by 250swb

You cannot set the camera 'not' to fire unless it is in focus, as I said above, it will fire even if it is out of focus 'after the AF has finished working'.

So before telling me I don't understand do some homework of your own.

Steve

I am telling you that you don't understand because you are neither reading the topic nor are you giving correct information - please do not participate in this thread any further if you are simply going to post incorrect information as it is of no benefit to anyone.

What is the point in Olympus giving an option to fire the shutter or not if the camera just ignores it? The answer is the camera does not ignore it, if set in the correct fashion the E-3 will not fire the shutter if it is unable to confirm focus. This is how the E-3 ships for its S-AF mode, C-AF is different but that's not what is being discussed here. Trying to focus within the focus range of a telephoto lens such as the 35-100mm will cause the camera to cycle through the range then give up, the shutter will not fire and the camera will indicate it was unable to obtain focus in the VF display with a flashing indicator. The same will happen in low light when the camera is unable to obtain focus.

The issue isn't even with that, the problem is the E-3 thinks it has focus (beeps and lights up the display) and allows the shutter to fire.

John

[BL3]

Looking at Julie's post above got me thinking about how the E-3 AF system differs from the other Oly offerings, and I realized that it has a temperature calibration feature that is, I believe, unique to the E-3. I'm wondering if that is what is malfunctioning in Julie's camera, although I find it hard to believe that the factory repair facility did not check that feature. I really can't think of a way to turn that feature off, at least for test purposes, short of periodically shutting the camera off and then restarting it. I wonder if any of those who are having focus problems operate their cameras in a manner that would make them more susceptible to temperature related problems? Probably just a shot in the dark, but who knows.

Rocky

[e_dawg]

Originally Posted by Johnmcl7

With regards to the Nikon AF, I don't expect it to be flawless but from what I've read the AF performance is consistent - I've not read any complaints from those who have switched from the E-3 to the D700. However if I at least knew why the E-3 misfocussed and how to avoid it then I could probably live with the fault, it's the fact that I don't know why the E-3 is doing this that is the main problem which is why I started this thread. [...]

'Generally' very accurate AF is no good when the camera will for no apparent reason misfocus on the scene entirely.

Well I mostly agree with you and that's why I went out and bought a D300 -- because I was tired of the AF system letting me down. But there is a bit of the "grass is always greener" phenomenon as well, because I am finding out the D300 is not the greatest thing since sliced bread either. I would say that it is more dependable when I "need to get the shot"... because it more often gives me something, anything to use. But tack sharp focus with a variety of lenses and zoom settings remains elusive.

Here is an ballpark estimate of the kinds of shots I get with my E-3 vs my D300:

E-3
Tack sharp 30%
In focus but not tack sharp 30%
Focus is off, but still usable 20%
Blurry mess / Couldn't even take the shot 20%

D300
Tack sharp 20%
In focus but not tack sharp 40%
Focus is off, but still usable 30%
Blurry mess / Couldn't even take the shot 10%

So the D300 can get more shots, ultimately. The amount of times I either get a blurry mess or can't even take the shot are cut in half, but there are more shots that are "just okay", and not as many tack sharp ones.

Put another way, for times when I have to get the shot out of obligation, I would reach for the D300. But for my own enjoyment and actually getting a higher rate of keepers and tack sharp images, I would reach for the E-3.

----------

Here's a story about my D300 that will illustrate its imperfections too:

I wanted to use my Sigma 50-150/2.8 on my D300 for a friend's wedding. After a few test shots, I noticed that it just wasn't sharp on the D300 at any focal length or aperture. First thing I did was go to the AF Fine Tune module to calibrate my lens. Testing revealed that my 50-150 was front-focusing throughout its range. But the annoying thing was that whatever setting brought the wide-end into proper focus was not the right setting for correcting the long-end. If I wanted proper focus at 50 mm, I would have to use a setting of +8. If I wanted proper focus at 150 mm, I would have to use a setting of +19. Needless to say, this is not ideal.

So here I am at the wedding and I am switching the AF Fine Tune settings every time I zoom in / out. What a royal PITA. Eventually, I just set the thing to +13 as an intermediate setting and accepted that both the wide and long ends of the zoom will be slightly mis-focused.

And I am not the only person with a D300 that notices this problem with zooms. Happens with my other lenses too, but the disparity between wide and long ends is not as big, and those lenses are not as fast, so the larger DoF hides focus errors anyways.

[Johnmcl7]

Originally Posted by BL3

Looking at Julie's post above got me thinking about how the E-3 AF system differs from the other Oly offerings, and I realized that it has a temperature calibration feature that is, I believe, unique to the E-3. I'm wondering if that is what is malfunctioning in Julie's camera, although I find it hard to believe that the factory repair facility did not check that feature. I really can't think of a way to turn that feature off, at least for test purposes, short of periodically shutting the camera off and then restarting it. I wonder if any of those who are having focus problems operate their cameras in a manner that would make them more susceptible to temperature related problems? Probably just a shot in the dark, but who knows.

Rocky

This is a good point and could be a source of some of the issues, Julie's E-3 seems to be more troublesome in certain conditions. The E-3 does record the sensor temperature although I dont know how relevent this is as I tried checking comparing batches of pictures and their sensor temp but there didn't seem to be any pattern. My E-3 seems to misfocus when cold just as much as when shooting for a while in the warm sun.

Temperature was the source of the Canon 1D problems as far as I'm aware as part of the AF subsystem was expanding in the heat. As it's also sometihng that varies it does tie in with an intermittent issue but I've not been able to find any correlation so far.

John

[jorgen]

jorgen

[Bob&Glennie]

Originally Posted by e_dawg

Well I mostly agree with you and that's why I went out and bought a D300 -- because I was tired of the AF system letting me down. But there is a bit of the "grass is always greener" phenomenon as well, because I am finding out the D300 is not the greatest thing since sliced bread either. I would say that it is more dependable when I "need to get the shot"... because it more often gives me something, anything to use. But tack sharp focus with a variety of lenses and zoom settings remains elusive.

Here is an ballpark estimate of the kinds of shots I get with my E-3 vs my D300:

E-3
Tack sharp 30%
In focus but not tack sharp 30%
Focus is off, but still usable 20%
Blurry mess / Couldn't even take the shot 20%

D300
Tack sharp 20%
In focus but not tack sharp 40%
Focus is off, but still usable 30%
Blurry mess / Couldn't even take the shot 10%

So the D300 can get more shots, ultimately. The amount of times I either get a blurry mess or can't even take the shot are cut in half, but there are more shots that are "just okay", and not as many tack sharp ones.

Put another way, for times when I have to get the shot out of obligation, I would reach for the D300. But for my own enjoyment and actually getting a higher rate of keepers and tack sharp images, I would reach for the E-3.

----------

Here's a story about my D300 that will illustrate its imperfections too:

I wanted to use my Sigma 50-150/2.8 on my D300 for a friend's wedding. After a few test shots, I noticed that it just wasn't sharp on the D300 at any focal length or aperture. First thing I did was go to the AF Fine Tune module to calibrate my lens. Testing revealed that my 50-150 was front-focusing throughout its range. But the annoying thing was that whatever setting brought the wide-end into proper focus was not the right setting for correcting the long-end. If I wanted proper focus at 50 mm, I would have to use a setting of +8. If I wanted proper focus at 150 mm, I would have to use a setting of +19. Needless to say, this is not ideal.

So here I am at the wedding and I am switching the AF Fine Tune settings every time I zoom in / out. What a royal PITA. Eventually, I just set the thing to +13 as an intermediate setting and accepted that both the wide and long ends of the zoom will be slightly mis-focused.

And I am not the only person with a D300 that notices this problem with zooms. Happens with my other lenses too, but the disparity between wide and long ends is not as big, and those lenses are not as fast, so the larger DoF hides focus errors anyways.

I have stayed out of the E3 AF threads because my E3 has not given me reason to gripe but I think e_dawg raises a very good point. I have the privelege of hanging out with several Photo-journalist professionals and I get to shoot with a couple of them on their press pass. Most of them are using Canon (5D's) and Nikons and none of them has a perfect camera. I shot a white water kyak competiton with "Dave" from The Sun. He was using a 5D with a 400mm Canon something (sorry, I don't know the canon lens line too well) and I was using my E3 with 50-200 and EC14. He ended up admitting that my E3 did a better job with AF than his 5D and he purchased several shots from me for his asignment.

That said, my E3 will confirm AF and shoot when the focus is visibly off in the viewfinder. It happens with long travel lenses like the 50mm f2. A second jab to re-focus always gets it right but even so, that E3 still performs better than "Dave's" 5D and my keeper rate is every bit as good as my E1.

Bob

[davidh202]

Temp sensor varients was discussed a long time ago.I'd think Oly would have taken that to heart by now.
David

[davidh202]

Agreed, I just posted another thread about all the complaints I read and all the firmware updates to try and resolve focus issues from all the major players!
AF has been designed so super sensative on all the top tier cameras that it is too easy to get it off kilter. Overkill in my book!
David

[davidh202]

Acme kept reminding me in the old focus threads that the focus sensors do not see color and we know that contrast is the key to good focus ability.
I think that even though we sometimes believe we have good enough contrast for the AF to focus properly.Depending on the light levels, lens and F stop used, distance to subject, and subject color (or if you would grey scale), the AF systems may have a harder time distiguishing good enough contrast to focus properly.Too many variables to ponder.

But here we are guessing again like 8 months ago

[Joop]

Originally Posted by windsprite

Of course the focus was intended to be on the eye, but in the first two it's on the whiskers, and in the third one it's on the tip of the ear. Center point was used, with no recomposing:

Reading exif data you did not use center point but diamond setup (Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)). Second al pictures are shot with this setup:
# Contrast = normal (0)
# Saturation = high (2)
# Sharpness = hard (2)

Originally Posted by windsprite

And here are some E-510 snaps. Except for #2, the DOF is much narrower here, and the light was lower. Most have been focused and recomposed:

The Exif data show on all these pics;
Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
# Contrast = soft (1)
# Saturation = high (2)
# Sharpness = soft (1)

So it seems to me that it has less to do with AF and it has more to do with the setup of contrast, saturation and sharpness. These settings do influence the sharpness of your picture.

[windsprite]

Originally Posted by Joop

Reading exif data you did not use center point but diamond setup (Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)).

I absolutely did not use diamond setup. I used center point only, sensitivity small. Metering Mode refers to exposure, not focus. It's irrelevant here.

So it seems to me that it has less to do with AF and it has more to do with the setup of contrast, saturation and sharpness. These settings do influence the sharpness of your picture.

We are not talking about sharpness but focus. To any shallow DOF picture there is a sharp part and a blurry part. If you intend to focus on the eyes, the eyes should be sharpest part of the picture. If another part of the picture is sharper than the eyes, the image is misfocused. The E-3 images are perfectly sharp, if you look at the whiskers and ear; it's just that the sharpness is in the wrong place. It is in the right place on the E-510 images, give or take a few mm.

And anyway, you have the settings all wrong. The actual Saturation, Contrast and Sharpness are as follows:

E-3: +1, 0, and +2

E-510: +1, -2, and -2

Both Oly Master and Exiftool confirm this. These are the basic settings I often use when testing focus, because the E-510's in-camera sharpening is stronger than the E-3's. I also sharpened the images when I reduced them to web size.

Joop, this is the only time I'm going to respond to your posts in this thread. I don't mean to be rude, but ever since last December, it seems you either have very poor eyesight or don't understand the discussion.