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View Full Version : PMA Experience Day 1 & 2....



tspore
03-08-2007, 11:29 PM
Well yesterday I went to the sneak peak, and below is what I stuipidly buried in another thread. All I can say is I am tired. Cody is up all the time.... He wants to party, even at 4 AM... But we all are having a great time so far.
Here were my observations from Day 1:

A Few more thoughts on today.
Here is what I was able to put my hands on to this point.
#1. the 14-50mm leica lens
#2. the E-410
#3. the E-510
#4. the 14-42mm
#1 - mentioned in another post. It was really nice.
#4 - the 14-42mm lens was a very light weight lens, small and compact. For a budget lens, It seemed nice. I will have to wait and see what turns up, but really it seemed nice to me. Don't expect it to be a 14-54mm, but for a kit lens. I felt like quality.
#2 - The E-410 - It is small. Just a little guy. It is truely the smallest DSLR I have held. I try to think, would I want to shoot this camera? If not I then whom? The little lens fit great with both the E-410 and E-510. It was a nice pair. However, my hands were to big, the camera was way to small for me. But for my wife, it was great. It will fit in very well. I think that this will replace her point and shoot camera.
#3 the E-510 - This camera height is about the same. Width is more, partially because of more things inside (e.g. IS, bigger battery). However, I really liked the E-510 more than I liked the E-500. It fit better. Would I like it? Its ok. Will I buy it? Probably, until something else comes along. However, I own some great glass - and really putting the E-510 on the 90-250, 35-100, or even the 7-14mm seems to deprive the glass of what it deserves. Also I don't know how comfortable I will be having the camera on a neck strap with the 35-100mm it does not look like the camera was designed to hold the weight of the lens. (On the 90-250 at least the neck strap is attached to the lens.)
I have said this many times and will again here. I think that Olympus makes the finnest glass on the market. However, their bodies....
We will see what the images look like. How the IS really performs, and what the noise looks like. I have high hopes. If the E-510 lives up to its expectations, then I will be very happy. If not then its disapointing.
Last note - I was screwing around with live view. They basically have gone to 1 mode. They found that Mode "A" and mode "B" was confusing. (In fact I got my own head screwed up when talking about it.) So it seemed to work as a hybrid mode A & B all in 1. You could zoom in 10X, as well as the auto focus works, by pushing the button half way.
Ok, ok, last observation, now about the viewfinder. The viewfinder, is in my limited experience, of holding and playing with the camera for 10 minutes much much better. It is still a bit small, compared to a 35mm, or even the E-1. But It worked very well. It was very bright. they seemed to have given you a slightly bigger one. I compared it to my E-1, and it was slightly dimmer, but really it wasn't much. The new prism seems to be very good.
I lied a few more thoughts- Auto focus speed, seemed to be very good. Much quicker in focusing in the room than my E-1 w/ grip did. Also they have moved the focus lock light. (you know the little red light that tells you when something is in focus, and which point is the focus) has been moved to the main screen. It is an very important improvement. I hate looking down in the viewfinder to see when my subject is in focus.
Tomorrow, I am going to try to grab a few images, and see what other observations on the new cameras I can come up with.
that is all I have got. I need to go to bed.

Dan
03-09-2007, 12:11 AM
Thanks Tony - any word on availability and or price on the 2 EC? Of everything released it's about the most interesting for me and if the IS is "really" worth 4 stops! Read the 4 stops somewhere...sounds to good to be true!

Dan

tspore
03-09-2007, 12:31 AM
Day 2 (The first official day of PMA.)
I will try to answer all the questions I can that you all submited to me in another post.
I got to meet with some of the very higher ups from Olympus. The chief designer, chief marketer, and a few others.
Some of my answers will come from my experience there others will come from the interview. I am not going to say which is which I am to tired.
Now in this post grammer, spelling, etc. Will be bad. So I apologize before hand. (Maybe a moderator, can fix it all for me? ) I'm :nerd: just trying to get accurate info up ASAP.
Also I really took over the whole conversation, the other guy stood no chance. In fact, I shot off so many questions, they looked terified at times.
I ended up running over my time about 15 minutes. In addition I was in the booth asking questions 10 minutes before I was to, and they hadn't even setup yet. So the 30 minute meeting was nearly an hour. however, I didn't ask a few questions that you all had listed. I ran out of time.
(The next post by me will have other questions I asked and a "few" shots, but that may have to wait till morning. I also inteviewed sigma, and Panasonic today.... Panasonic, was great. Sigma, well.... that was a large brick wall. I don't think they understood me, and well all that means is next time I need someone with me who speaks Japanese)
The final outcome is what I hope will be a closer relationship between this site, and Olympus/Panasonic. They have promised that. However, I can say I wasn't the most tackful in asking for that.
So in no particular order & no credit given to the one who asked it:
what is SWD?
It is basically the same focusing motors which are on the Canon lenses.
Is SWD going to be released on the existing lenses as they are doing on the 50-200?
Probably not anytime soon. At least most likely no through 08. Because the new focusing is that good. However, the 50-200mm was still to slow, and they wanted to to fix that one.
Will they retrofit the pro lenses (e.g. 300mm, 150mm, 35-100mm etc....) with SWD?
They had no comment about this, but again repeated no plans to make the existing lenses out in the market that have not been labeled SWD.
What are the avalibility dates & prices of the new lenses?
Unknown release date- Some time in 07. (Except for the 100mm macro, and 14-35mm) Also unknown about pricing, on any of the lens, or release dates, or anything. They would not share any info on glass which hasn't been made known yet.
Info on the EC-20?
2 stops of light loss. That's all I found out.

How different is the auto focus system?
It is very advanced. From my own experiences, It is able to track very nicely, unlike my E-1. Still 3 points. But the focus lock indicator has been moved to the screen. Which is a HUGE!!!!! improvement in my opinion.

What is the HIGH ISO like?
Ok, Oly had no comment except its better. however, images leaked to me, which I will not post, and I must say that the jpeg's are wonderful. I only saw up to ISO 1250, but that looks a little better than ISO 800 off my E-1.
They claim because of the new technology, that the noise out of the 10 MP camera, is 1 stop cleaner than out of the 5 MP E-1. (In addition there is a higher Dynamic Range)
With the in camera noise reduction the jpeg's are better than 1 stop improvement in noise in my opinion. I would say that the biggest disapointment with high noise images in the E-400 was the blacks. These blacks look great at 1250, as well as the other colors in the images.
Many reasons are to this factor. Some of them include the sensor, the built in software, and finally, they have placed the chip on a new type of ciruct board. It is like a plyable membrane do hicky. (That's offical terminology from a true redneck here) (I will try to get a picture tomorrow).

Info on the Next E-pro
When will it be out: I was promissed 3 times in 07. I asked the question in several ways and was given that answer each time. (I would assume after June, because it wasn't announced at PMA)
How much would it cost: no clue
What are the features: We will see all the improvements of the consumer cameras, and then many more.
Why so long to the market: It takes time to build a whole new camera system, and there are now many new lenses, flashes, and bodies.
(I took many pictures of the body.)
when will we hear about it: I don't know, but I guess it will be a few months before hand, like the cameras just released, if I had to guess. I personally am going to start saving next week.

What about primes?
I asked this question, and was told, they have spent there time developing a full 3 tier zoom range. Now that is complete, and they will bring out many primes. I ask about a pancake lens, and he said yes they are working on it. I asked about when, and suggested 08, and they seemed to said probably.

why doesn't Oly support the full functionality of the system? (E.G. - can't use the aperture ring on the Leica/Panasonic lenses)
Basically the system is open, but some features from different comapanies will not be able to work on the system. The Olympus cameras, can adjust aperture only by dial. OIS isn't going to be fully functional. Its how it is. (My guess is its part of the Oly/panasonic deal)
But all lens are compatible, the metering works, and the auto focus works.

Is the 3xx series dead?
no reason to think that. the E-330 will continue to be released.

How does Olympus classify there system for its users?
The 400 series is targeted at new SLR users. People who never have shot a SLR camera before. Also the 400 series will be a great SLR for women, because of size, (smaller hands, smaller camea) The size is a bit to small for me, but Katie (my wife) loved it.
the 500 series has the BLM-1 battery and has a larger grip. This means that I was more comfortable shooting it.
Olympus has 3 classifications of lenses, consumer, mid range and pro, what about bodies?
They see this as Pro bodies are single digit(E-9), consumer as 3 digit (E-600), and at some point they will release a mid level body 2 digit (E-30)
(the E-9, 600, and 30 do not refer to any real camera, they are just examples)
When will we see a mid level body? Who knows.

What about live view?
the new cameras, have live view A & B all in 1. The mirror picks up and all the auto focus comes from the sensor. you can also zoom in and manually focus just like on the E-330. It is both modes in 1. (And btw, it works great!! I really liked the setup)
what about the Vibration Reduction?
I couldn't try it out. they would not let me. but said it works good. Sorry I can't give more info on this one.

What about software?
They had free copies of Oly Master 2.0. Let me say I only played with it for about 10 minutes, and that was on a mac. It is vastly improved. It has the image III technology built in just like the jpeg creator in the camera. It was running at a Intel native application. It was quick, but they only had jpeg's on the computer I think. :dontknow: So it looked good. I have a copy of master, and will comment on it later in more depth.

Will some of the features of the 410 be updated in the 400?
I spent about 10 minutes on this question, the majority of the features will not be on the camera. Really all that the E-400 and E-410 share very few of the same qualities. They only things which are the same, is the plastic body and the battery. All the guts are very different. (Think about it, processor, mirror, sensor, etc. all different) but the gentleman said he would look into it.

Wireless TTL flash?
Basically no word, except they are working on it.

A vertical grip for the E-510?
they found that they didn't sell well. So most likely no.

for the most part those were the answers I was given If I remember anything else I will add it later.

It was a honor to meet the original designer of all Slr cameras, he showed how he first drew up the camera, then wood, then clay, and finally a plastic demo. That was cool.
Also I saw how they got the cameras so small. Basically instead of 1 large circut board they have broken it up into 3 pieces or so, they then can release smaller cameras.

Finally I saw how the VR works, as well as the SSWF, that was very neat.
I asked would image quality be effected from a vibrating chip, like it is with IS in the lens. The answer was no not at all. The lenses are designed for this VR system. The light coming in is telecentric (I think that was the work) and there should be no loss of quality from this form of vibration reduction.

All in all it was a good meeting. I am hoping to get more info from them in the future, so that this site, and the companies can work closer together.

Henk Peter
03-09-2007, 12:40 AM
Thanks Tony, please forgive me if the answer is somewhere else in a thread but where have they positioned the VF information, is it still on the right of the VF like in the E500 or have they moved it to the bottom like in the E1?
Thanks in advance and have a good time. Say hello to our fellow members.

acme
03-09-2007, 12:49 AM
Super job for an off the cuff writeup!

Did I read you correctly that the new bodies have contrast detection focus implementations? ie, they focus without dropping the mirror?

Is the E-330 mode B "double mirror slap" gone? ie, are they able to meter off the main sensor, rather than dropping the mirror immediately before taking an exposure?

baal
03-09-2007, 12:50 AM
Thanks Tony, this is very informative.

Cheers,

Henri

tspore
03-09-2007, 12:51 AM
Images from today. The lighting was tricky. (In addition to many photographers, taking shots at the same time.) Many of the pictures have had there contrast was effected to show as much detail as possible.
(All pictures can be clicked on for larger shots!!!!)
Here is the Sigmonster with the E-330 attached.
41004101
here is the E-510 on a 300mm (Or 90-250mm)
4103
Here is the old 40-150 vs the new version
4102
The small size of the 70-300mm
4104
this shows (poorly) that the 50-200 hasn't changed in size.
4108
This is my wife holding the E-410. Katie really liked this camera.
4128
This is the underwater housing. The picture of the lens, is the 7-14mm and its case. Really I was surprised at how big underwater housing is for the system. (Its been a long time since I've seen underwater SLR housing.
41244125
41264127
E-Pro shots. from all angles that I could get.
41154116
41214117
41224118
41234119
41204129
Here are a few shots from Panasonic, which I forgot to upload earlier....
41424143
4144
The rest of the shots were from the cabnits which show the cut outs of cameras, and lenses, as well as the guts of the E-510.

tspore
03-09-2007, 12:55 AM
Did I read you correctly that the new bodies have contrast detection focus implementations? ie, they focus without dropping the mirror?Is the E-330 mode B "double mirror slap" gone? ie, are they able to meter off the main sensor, rather than dropping the mirror immediately before taking an exposure?
Its late and I need to double check this one. But I think that they did... I know that focusing is off the sensor area, somehow. So I never heard the mirror flap down for that. And maybe metering is too. I need to double check this though.

Thanks Tony, please forgive me if the answer is somewhere else in a thread but where have they positioned the VF information, is it still on the right of the VF like in the E500 or have they moved it to the bottom like in the E1?
Thanks in advance and have a good time. Say hello to our fellow members.
Um.... I don't remember this one either. I will check tomorrow. I know that the focus point light is in the center of the screen. But I think that the info is at the bottom, like the E-1.... But I will know more tomorrow.

odklizec
03-09-2007, 12:56 AM
Will some of the features of the 410 be updated in the 400?
I spent about 10 minutes on this question, the majority of the features will not be on the camera. Really all that the E-400 and E-410 share very few of the same qualities. They only things which are the same, is the plastic body and the battery. All the guts are very different. (Think about it, processor, mirror, sensor, etc. all different) but the gentleman said he would look into it.
Very nice report Tony! Thanks for taking your time, especially with this question! ;)

As I'm completely aware of the internal differences between E400/410, I don't expect to have LV in E400, less noise, higher battery life or faster continuous shooting. But I'm quite sure, the other "missing" features I mentioned previously, are perfectly doable. You see, they were just removed from the E400 menu and added to E410.

OK the compressed RAW is new. And as the E410 have new image processor, it may take longer to save the compressed RAW file in E400. But the solution would be to allow the users to save compressed or uncompressed RAW. So we could choose between speed and size. But as for the other things, I'm sure they were just removed from E400 because of the "marketing decision". Then found to be requested by customers and returned back in E410. But yes, I can be wrong.. ;)

acme
03-09-2007, 01:18 AM
Somebody at Olympus must REALLY ENJOY sawing stuff in half. Looks like a 7-14 and 150 f/2 besides the 300mm this time.

Were you able to tell which body was submitted to the knife?

jonr
03-09-2007, 01:47 AM
Great job Tony. I bet you are having a blast!
The E-X question is: Should I wait for it, or get E-510 and then upgrade. I guess that I am spoiled by the E-1.
The 50-200 seemed shorter, but if it is not, I don't see any reason to upgrade, except for the erratic AF.
Again, great job. There is a beer waiting for you here when you are in the neighborhood. ;)
Does the E-X have an IS or not? (I assume it does, but it is still not clear)

finemom
03-09-2007, 04:40 AM
Maybe you could get Julie to give you a break with Cody. I'd do it, if I was there!!:wink:

Sharkey
03-09-2007, 05:42 AM
Good job Tony :thumbup:

You deserved your press pass quite well. Milked them out as much as you did...great.
Hope this FTP-Olympus relationship is gonna work, for our sake and more importantly for you and this site !

Now get some sleep and then get out there AGAIN, fast :D .

JimBarnaby
03-09-2007, 05:51 AM
Great job Tony, and alot of work too.
I think a non mirror LV mode would be great and illiminate the need for Mirror lock up on the tripod.
Interesting answer for the 3xx series, thank you for asking that. Other than the shape and articulated screen there isn't much that isn't accomplished in the new bodys.
If everything performs as advertized Oly fans will be very happy.
JimB

Perry Jacobs
03-09-2007, 05:58 AM
Hi Tony, and thanks for the great work.

Is the noise improvement only related to jpg processing or have the base raw files been improved as well? - Perry

Kirasir
03-09-2007, 06:24 AM
Tony, I am authorized by russian 4/3 photocommunity to pass You a thousands of thanks - I have given a link to your posts on our phorum, and guys have fond answers to many of their questions. Thanks a lot!

Ombrafoto
03-09-2007, 07:07 AM
Great report Tony, and much appreciated...

Many questioned answered...

mxs
03-09-2007, 07:44 AM
Great job Tony. You must be tired as hell.

Was there any word why they stepped away from articulating LCD screen?


Thanks again

Marek

tspore
03-09-2007, 09:29 AM
Maybe a few more answers....

Great job Tony. I bet you are having a blast!
The E-X question is: Should I wait for it, or get E-510 and then upgrade. I guess that I am spoiled by the E-1.
The 50-200 seemed shorter, but if it is not, I don't see any reason to upgrade, except for the erratic AF.
Again, great job. There is a beer waiting for you here when you are in the neighborhood. ;)
Does the E-X have an IS or not? (I assume it does, but it is still not clear)
I think I may get the E-510, but I have bought almost every other Oly camera, but the E-500 (and 400) It was a nice little guy to shoot. I will get the 400 at some point for Katie, then she can join us here on the forum.


Hi Tony, and thanks for the great work.
Is the noise improvement only related to jpg processing or have the base raw files been improved as well? - Perry
Um... I shouldn't even know about the jpeg's, doubt that I would have anything to get the raw files converted right now. But oly did promise 1 stop improvement. Which is very big.
It was my observations that it was more than 1 stop.



Great job Tony. You must be tired as hell.
Was there any word why they stepped away from articulating LCD screen?
Thanks again
Marek
I didn't ask but my guess, is that's the 300's series feature. (More parts more$$$) and I would guess the body isn't designed to be as small and light weight as possible. like the 400 & 500 series.

Steve
03-09-2007, 10:25 AM
Tony,
Thanks for asking all the questions. When you get finished today, it will be 5 o'clock somewhere so raise a glass. We'll be raising one to you.
Steve

mxs
03-09-2007, 01:14 PM
E510 should be more expensive than E330 or not? I am still puzzled by this Olympus move.

Thanks anyways

Marek

roger h
03-09-2007, 04:11 PM
Thanks, Tony. Great job!

Roger

AbeakerZ
03-09-2007, 04:32 PM
Thanks for the coverage Tony.

I took the time to read the specs you posted in the other thread and see that the 510 is using the BLM1. I'm disappointed in the decision to not put a grip on the 510 but for the market it as aimed at I suspected that would be the case.

If I read your post correctly, a prosumer version in the E series is planned. I expect that should hit the shelves in 09 or 10. Oh well, my 300 still takes photos and perhaps I can pick up a used 300 body once people start upgrading. That IS in the 510 is really tempting for me though. In my entry to dslr the choices came down to KM and Oly for the obvious reasons.

Chuckr53
03-09-2007, 04:43 PM
Tony...did you get to handle the 14-35 or just look at it in the case? In the photo it dwarfs the 12-60, so it looks fairly hefty. The 77mm filter size is the same as the 35-100, so I've got an idea of the mass...I'm guessing about 1.5x the size of the 7-14???

Your thoughts?

Thanks,
Chuck

Witzgall
03-09-2007, 05:54 PM
Any word on why the 14-35 has been moved to 2008?

tspore
03-09-2007, 09:31 PM
Tony...did you get to handle the 14-35 or just look at it in the case? In the photo it dwarfs the 12-60, so it looks fairly hefty. The 77mm filter size is the same as the 35-100, so I've got an idea of the mass...I'm guessing about 1.5x the size of the 7-14???
Your thoughts?
Thanks,
Chuck
I didn't get to handly anything, but some electronics. (outside of what I owned, and the new lenses)
The 77mm filter is the same size as the 35-100mm which I think is a good move, then I can use the same polerizer, and neutral Density filter. diamator of the lens is a little less than the 7-14mm. length I think its about the same, maybe a little longer.


Any word on why the 14-35 has been moved to 2008?
they told me not till the Epro is out, but then they said that the next Epro will be out this year.

Thanks for the coverage Tony.
I took the time to read the specs you posted in the other thread and see that the 510 is using the BLM1. I'm disappointed in the decision to not put a grip on the 510 but for the market it as aimed at I suspected that would be the case.
If I read your post correctly, a prosumer version in the E series is planned. I expect that should hit the shelves in 09 or 10. Oh well, my 300 still takes photos and perhaps I can pick up a used 300 body once people start upgrading. That IS in the 510 is really tempting for me though. In my entry to dslr the choices came down to KM and Oly for the obvious reasons.
my guess is probably a prosumer will be out at some point, but wasn't given any promise when.

E510 should be more expensive than E330 or not? I am still puzzled by this Olympus move.
Thanks anyways
Marek
I would think that the 510 would be more money than the E330, but I also believe that Oly is trying to grab market share, and by releasing the cameras at an afforable price they will grab more market share. (Also the E-330 would be cheaper in my guess by then.)

Day 3
Really today I spent most of it upstairs, in the other company booths. It was fun seeing some of the crap people are trying to sell. Most of it didn't interest me, but it was fun to see some of the things.
I also went back to the panasonic booth, and the L1 guy only really wanted to talk about the P&S cameras. Same with my press meeting yesterday. So I don't have outside of that annoucement much else to share.
i did grab some shots, and will try to post those tonight.
Tomorrow, I am going to ditch PMA, and do some turist stuff with the family. But really its been a fun show. I have made I hope some good contacts with the companies, and learned some new things.
tonight I had dinner with Julie, Larry, (Mr. & Mrs. LLpoolej) Lawrence & his wife. That was great to meet some members face to face. Those pictures will follow too.
Anyhow for now, I am going to take a break, and go hop in the spa. My legs are aching.

JimBarnaby
03-09-2007, 11:10 PM
Thank you Tony
It has been great getting a sense of what it is like from a insider point of veiw.
Between the hands on preveiws and pictures to the meeting and questions you have given us so much more to think about than the standard preveiw ever could.
I hope you enjoy tomorrow.
Jim

TimG
03-10-2007, 02:12 AM
this shows (poorly) that the 50-200 hasn't changed in size.


Hey, Tony, does the new 50-200 have internal zooming? It looks like it is set to close to 100mm in the photo with no extension. Perhaps it isn't a working model, but it would be nice (for me) if it was internal zooming.

TimG
03-10-2007, 02:35 AM
(In addition there is a higher Dynamic Range)


I have been using a E400 and I find this the most exciting bit so far. While the E400 has a different chip that the E410, the dynamic range is OUTSTANDING!! Much better that my E1, and when it does blow the highlights, it almost looks exactly like film. Very little sharp digital cutoff or what I call "digital yellow".


Except for pressing the auto tone correction in Studio in the first and last images, these are all straight from the E400.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/TGooding/P3030005.jpghttp://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/TGooding/P3030010.jpghttp://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/TGooding/P3020038.jpg

Johannes
03-10-2007, 03:47 AM
Thank you Tony for your hard work for us.:smile:
Does Olympus said anything that the displayed P-1 is the next flagship E-pro or its the mid range E-xx? :hmm:

Chuckr53
03-10-2007, 06:01 AM
Thanks Tony.

Hokuto
03-10-2007, 06:25 AM
Tony, you're a trooper. Hang in there!

Stuttaton
03-10-2007, 07:16 AM
What about the size of the E-pro, compared to the E-1.
To me it looks in the pictures like the prism hump is a lot higher than on the E-1 and the rest of the camera about the same size. Correct?

Perry Jacobs
03-10-2007, 09:02 AM
Tony, how does the 12-60 compare sizewise to 14-54?

core
03-10-2007, 09:55 AM
Is the 3xx series dead?
no reason to think that. the E-330 will continue to be released.


I'd take it that means no upgraded to the E-330 for the foreseeable future? (If not the new sensor, at least put in the new TruePicTurbo, support for wired remote, and any other goodies ...)

Henk Peter
03-10-2007, 11:52 AM
Um.... I don't remember this one either. I will check tomorrow. I know that the focus point light is in the center of the screen. But I think that the info is at the bottom, like the E-1.... But I will know more tomorrow.

Tony thanks for all the info you gave us so far, great job! Did you get a second look at the VF re my question?

tspore
03-10-2007, 12:57 PM
I'm all done at PMA now. Went back for a bit. Julie and Larry are still there, so they may have more to add.

I added a few Panasonic pictures to this post:
http://fourthirdsphoto.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=77735&postcount=7

Let me try to answer the questions, and if I still missed any let me know. And I will try to come up with an answer.


Hi Tony, and thanks for the great work.
Is the noise improvement only related to jpg processing or have the base raw files been improved as well? - Perry
I didn't see any Raw files. But my guess, both the processing engine, and the sensor are an improvement for the files.

Tony, I am authorized by russian 4/3 photocommunity to pass You a thousands of thanks - I have given a link to your posts on our phorum, and guys have fond answers to many of their questions. Thanks a lot!
Great! glad to see the russian guys on the site. I don't speak any russian, but I am sure that they can get translated, and I will try to get them some answers.

Hey, Tony, does the new 50-200 have internal zooming? It looks like it is set to close to 100mm in the photo with no extension. Perhaps it isn't a working model, but it would be nice (for me) if it was internal zooming.
I think its the same lens, except that it has the new motor.

Thank you Tony for your hard work for us.:smile:
Does Olympus said anything that the displayed P-1 is the next flagship E-pro or its the mid range E-xx? :hmm:
It will be the EX not Exx, according to my understanding.

What about the size of the E-pro, compared to the E-1.
To me it looks in the pictures like the prism hump is a lot higher than on the E-1 and the rest of the camera about the same size. Correct?
I only saw it underglass but the prism hump is a little bigger. (It has a flash inside.) but it looks to be about the same size. A Oly rep told julie it was slightly narrower... But I am unsure about it.

Tony, how does the 12-60 compare sizewise to 14-54?
Its a little bigger, maybe about the size of the 11-22mm, (I THINK) 72mm filter size.
I will be online most of the day, I have so many posts to look at. I think I will be quite busy.

Bytesmiths
03-10-2007, 08:35 PM
Tony, this has been bothering me for some time...

Can you find out if IS on the 510 works equally well with manual (adapted) lenses as it does with 4/3rds lenses?

A group of us have been debating this on a mailing list. Some say manual lens IS won't work at all, others say it will work equally well, and still others assert it will work, but not as good as it will with 4/3rds lenses.

Thanks for whatever light you can shed on this!

tspore
03-10-2007, 08:53 PM
Tony, this has been bothering me for some time...
Can you find out if IS on the 510 works equally well with manual (adapted) lenses as it does with 4/3rds lenses?
A group of us have been debating this on a mailing list. Some say manual lens IS won't work at all, others say it will work equally well, and still others assert it will work, but not as good as it will with 4/3rds lenses.
Thanks for whatever light you can shed on this!

I can't ask Oly for a while. I will start in a few days bugging them again. But really because of the way IS is implimented it should work equally well in all lenses. So I don't see any reason why it won't work.

lkeeney
03-10-2007, 08:56 PM
I only had a one-day pass to the PMA, and only spent one afternoon there.

There were only two things I wanted from PMA, and those were to see the new E-X mock-up and to speak with the Epson technical people about a problem I am having with my 3800 printer.

My wife, Jean, and I did spend about 5 hours walking the aisles and checking out the Lensbaby and other booths of interest.

The only thing I have to report is that I like the looks of the new E-x. But with no specifications, selling price, or release date, I came away with kind of an empty feeling.

Lawrence

Riley
03-10-2007, 10:37 PM
Might have some luck probing them on the TruePic III Image Processor
and the effect all important noise signature. It wont matter shooting RAW but it will become the standard by which the camera is measured. TruPic may be with us for some time, so we should be interested in what they are willing to give, if not in technical language, then more esoteric terms.

My personal take is, although E-400 was a step up, the L1 has the best noise performance. So perhaps the short conclusive question is, how does 510 compare with L1. If it improves on that position, that will indeed be good news.

cheers

Knight Palm
03-11-2007, 12:29 PM
Thanks to FourThirdsPhoto for the quick reporting from the PMA07, with the many questions and answers on the new Olympus products.

Interesting to see which companies that presented various levels of new products at PMA and what those products were. Also the year 2007 has almost started, so next time we'll here some news, would likely to be in August/September, like in any other year.

tspore
03-11-2007, 05:59 PM
I just got home from Vegas, so let me try to answer these questions:

I only had a one-day pass to the PMA, and only spent one afternoon there.
There were only two things I wanted from PMA, and those were to see the new E-X mock-up and to speak with the Epson technical people about a problem I am having with my 3800 printer.
My wife, Jean, and I did spend about 5 hours walking the aisles and checking out the Lensbaby and other booths of interest.
The only thing I have to report is that I like the looks of the new E-x. But with no specifications, selling price, or release date, I came away with kind of an empty feeling.
Lawrence

Lawrence,
I talked to the lens baby developer, about it, and he said that he would send me one to try out. So as soon as I get it I will try to get info up ASAP. The new version of lens baby, is a bit complicated. But I really like the selective focus & the fine focus on it. I held it for about 3 minutes, and already understood how it all went together.
For those types of shoots it was cool.
But I will report more later.

Might have some luck probing them on the TruePic III Image Processor
and the effect all important noise signature. It wont matter shooting RAW but it will become the standard by which the camera is measured. TruPic may be with us for some time, so we should be interested in what they are willing to give, if not in technical language, then more esoteric terms.
My personal take is, although E-400 was a step up, the L1 has the best noise performance. So perhaps the short conclusive question is, how does 510 compare with L1. If it improves on that position, that will indeed be good news.
cheers
I must admit, before PMA I hadn't even seen a L1 in person. Nor held it. I thought that it was a new body E-330, and that was it. However, I think tonight I will put a order in for one. It is a very nice to hold camera. It was laid out well, and seemed to function very good.
I will post my thoughts on the differences between the 410 and the L1 as soon as I can.
Really they have done some great things with the true pic III technology.
A new version of Studio and master will also be made available which use this technology for raw shooters. The software is very good compared to the old.
I will see if I can get permission to post demo copies of it for you guys to have ASAP.
This next week even though PMA is over I think more stuff will still be coming from the forum here.
(I do believe that when the reviewers compare the jpeg's out of the new cameras, they will be very satisfied, not only for DR, colors, sharpness, but also with the noise now, I expect that the 410 and 510 will get very high marks.)
Also according to what I heard, the 510 was a winner of a 07 DIMA award. I need to find a link to confirm this though. (IF anyone has seen it let me know).
-Tony

Riley
03-11-2007, 07:34 PM
I have never picked up and L1 either, and its hard to garner explicit information from reviews sometimes. But i think one of the things you ought examine, is the implementation of LiveView.

From what Ive seen L1 may revert to manual focus in LiveView, but AF comes alive at shutter 1/2 depressed. I have this feeling that it is improved somewhat in E-510/410.

Just the sort of esoteric thing to check out, should you be fortunate enough pick one up.

edit to add: one of the outrageously underrated things of L1 must be the use of a speed dial in place of a mode dial that I hardly ever use, and an aperture ring on the lens. Although of course there is no ring on supplementary lenses, with aperture control then relegated to a supplementary dial. Same layout as my LC-1, and by far the nicest part of that camera.

cheers

PP: pic's oh boy :)

Johnmcl7
03-12-2007, 02:50 PM
What about live view?
the new cameras, have live view A & B all in 1. The mirror picks up and all the auto focus comes from the sensor. you can also zoom in and manually focus just like on the E-330. It is both modes in 1. (And btw, it works great!! I really liked the setup)
what about the Vibration Reduction?
I couldn't try it out. they would not let me. but said it works good. Sorry I can't give more info on this one.

Have they sorted the problems in LV mode B then? You've mentioned that you don't think that it brings the mirror down for autofocus but does it still bring the mirror down to flush the data when taking the photo? I'm not convinced yet I have to admit (he says clinging to his 330)


From what Ive seen L1 may revert to manual focus in LiveView, but AF comes alive at shutter 1/2 depressed. I have this feeling that it is improved somewhat in E-510/410.

Yep, when you half press the shutter button it brings the mirror down blacking out the screen and focuses then pops the mirror back up. Bit clumsy but better than nothing, I believe they offered this functionality on the E-330 with a firmware upgrade. There seems to be some rumours that the E-410/E-510 can autofocus with the mirror down presumably in a similar fashion to how a point and shoot focuses.


edit to add: one of the outrageously underrated things of L1 must be the use of a speed dial in place of a mode dial that I hardly ever use, and an aperture ring on the lens. Although of course there is no ring on supplementary lenses, with aperture control then relegated to a supplementary dial. Same layout as my LC-1, and by far the nicest part of that camera.

I agree, I like the idea of this (L1 should hopefully be arriving tomorrow), I'd even go as far and say an ISO dial would be great as well so you would be able to change the major settings with ease.

John

Johnmcl7
03-12-2007, 05:43 PM
Regarding the 14-50mm:


#1 - mentioned in another post. It was really nice.

I'm probably being stupid, where is this post?

John

tspore
03-12-2007, 11:05 PM
Regarding the 14-50mm:
I'm probably being stupid, where is this post?

John

No not stupid. Its lost for sure.
Basically, it was something to the effect of, I really, really liked this lens. The Aperture ring, the quality. (Also loved the camera) In fact I liked the combo so much, it has been ordered. So they should be here in a couple of days.
I will try to get a review up in the next couple of weeks.
I must say before actually touching the camera, I was put off by the price. But after holding it and playing with it a bit, I think that it is going to find a new home with me.
Also I will try to get a sample of the 25mm ASAP. To get some thoughts up on that ASAP.

RogerC
03-12-2007, 11:35 PM
I wish that in mode B, with manual focus and manual exposure, the new cameras and the e330 would just take a picture and not flip the mirror first. Not sure what they are getting out of that, seems like a bug. I hope a firmware update can fix this, or we see it fixed in the production 410/510.

tspore
03-13-2007, 01:15 AM
I wish that in mode B, with manual focus and manual exposure, the new cameras and the e330 would just take a picture and not flip the mirror first. Not sure what they are getting out of that, seems like a bug. I hope a firmware update can fix this, or we see it fixed in the production 410/510.

They have to flip the mirror for metering I believe.
Mr. & Mrs LLpoolej were told that the mirror is 1/2 way down, it focuses with that part of the mirror, and meters. Also it will still drop the mirror to meter (getting the double slap)
I put it up to my ear, but I couldn't hear if it was a double slap or not, when it took the picture on the floor. So I am no help, to aid in the confusion.

llpoolej
03-13-2007, 04:44 AM
The good thing about the 510 and the halfway mirror thing is it eliminates the shutter lag the 330 has in live view. It is now as fast as any DSLR. I got to use it in that mode and it would shoot off 3fps as long as the card would hold it. Pretty nice really.

The focus on the 510 is very fast. It locked focus immediately in the marginal lighting of PMA. No hunting, no in and out focus. The grip feels nice, nicer than the 500 IMO. I didn't hear a double slap of the mirror. I did hear it when it opened halfway and it would make me think it had taken a photo

I have to say the Oly guys at the booth were super. We probably drove them nuts how we hung around. One of the guys is even going to come down to TN and shoot one of my events with me, bringing the 90-250 and 300 for me to play with!

Having seen what is to come, I am just not worried or stressed at all. It is GOOD.

Johnmcl7
03-13-2007, 05:41 AM
I wish that in mode B, with manual focus and manual exposure, the new cameras and the e330 would just take a picture and not flip the mirror first. Not sure what they are getting out of that, seems like a bug. I hope a firmware update can fix this, or we see it fixed in the production 410/510.

The mirror has to be down for it to focus and exposure, it would need a different AF mechanism to work with the mirror up.

John

acme
03-13-2007, 11:24 AM
The mirror has to be down for it to focus and exposure, it would need a different AF mechanism to work with the mirror up.


So instead it sounds like they made mode B work with the mirror down. The drawback to this approach is most of the light is lost to the viewfinder, so these cameras won't be as good as they could be in low light live view. On the other hand, the E-330's implementation could have been better, so perhaps they broke even or even won a little on the change.

Riley
03-13-2007, 11:55 AM
perhaps then
this is why faster AF has been sought and implemented

Johnmcl7
03-13-2007, 01:13 PM
So instead it sounds like they made mode B work with the mirror down. The drawback to this approach is most of the light is lost to the viewfinder, so these cameras won't be as good as they could be in low light live view. On the other hand, the E-330's implementation could have been better, so perhaps they broke even or even won a little on the change.

I'm perhaps misunderstanding you but the mirror has to be up for the E-410/510 to work as there's no secondary sensor. They will work as well as they can in low light, it was the secondary sensor which wasn't great for low light.

John

acme
03-13-2007, 02:05 PM
I'm perhaps misunderstanding you but the mirror has to be up for the E-410/510 to work as there's no secondary sensor. They will work as well as they can in low light, it was the secondary sensor which wasn't great for low light.

John

It can be down if the reflex mirror passes enough light to drive the main sensor. This would allow the observed A-like autofocus and lack of double mirror slap, but would give the same compromised viewfinder.

Or it may be a small misreportage. If someone gets to lay hands on one in a less hectic environment it shouldn't take long to figure out exactly how it was implemented.

Riley
03-13-2007, 10:05 PM
set IS aside, this implementation of liveview is one of the nicest parts of these cameras

Johnmcl7
03-14-2007, 06:19 AM
I have to say I'm not convinced yet, plus the lack of articulated screen blows it for me as I find it's one of the most useful aspects of the E-330 when using liveview.

John

acme
03-14-2007, 06:33 AM
I have to say I'm not convinced yet, plus the lack of articulated screen blows it for me as I find it's one of the most useful aspects of the E-330 when using liveview.

John

Perhaps they should offer shades with a heads up display as an accessory, for use with the tv-out... It'd sure solve the LCD in direct sunlight issue.