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View Full Version : E-3 Focusing Issue's Part 2 and Poll



tspore
01-20-2008, 04:49 PM
Really it is quite unfortunate those who are having focusing issues verses those who are not. Really some of the comments are well uncalled for and have not helped with the situation at all. However, I know that the majority of E-3 users are not experiencing issues.
So we must have a means to collect data.
But it will take work with from the members at the forum.
#1 - IF you are not experiencing any focusing issues just mark the box above which states that you are fine, and move on. (I really don't desire to read everyone's expert opinion.)
#2 - If you are experiencing issues - First try to change your camera to my settings, and then after that try it again. If that doesn't work than simple mark that you are having focusing issues.


After a week or so, I will try and work specifically with the group with is having issues off a public board.


So what we need is every owner of a E-3 to vote.


Tony's Settings for test I want the cameras to be exact as possible for this test -
ISO - 200
AF - Do 1 group with C-AF and a group with S-AF, If your camera is truly having issues a truly broken camera should be screwed up with both functions.
Metering - ESP + AF
AF area - 1 point
IS 1 - on
C-AF lock (These settings are under Wrench 1 A) ON
AF pointer - on
AF sensitivity normal
[...] setup spiral
RLS Priority S and C (Wrench 1 C) OFF

Pick your narrowest DOF lens -

Next shoot a corner of a wall at a 45degree angle, in good light and indoors.
If you have issues. Then wait for 7 days or so and right after PMA I will see what I can gather.

Hokuto
01-20-2008, 06:39 PM
Next shoot a corner of a wall at a 45degree angle, in good light and indoors.

Not sure how you mean for this to be done. Maybe furnish a drawing or example of what you want?

tspore
01-20-2008, 06:57 PM
Really like the photo of the wall in this article.
http://www.fourthirdsphoto.com/blog/?p=123

I know and understand that 1 or 2 groups of pictures isn't going to show or solve an issue. But I really want to try to have some hard evidence. To find a solution.

dh202
01-20-2008, 08:25 PM
Tony , that link doesn't work for me, nor do any on the article tab:dontknow:
David

tspore
01-20-2008, 09:19 PM
Probably just a small network hiccup

tspore
01-21-2008, 03:03 PM
I have uploaded a quick viewfinder overlay that I have used to evaluate about 100 images, to quickly look at the focus points to see help me understand what the camera choose. I hope this helps you judge for yourself (http://www.fourthirdsphoto.com/blog/?p=127).

windsprite
01-21-2008, 03:56 PM
Tony, thanks for this tool, it should be very helpful.

I have a question. I opened it in PSE, and all the marks are more than half a target box to the right of where they should be, ie. not centered. Does this happen to anybody else?

martin kimeldorf
01-21-2008, 04:00 PM
I have tried various settings and finally sent mine in.
I did not see how spiral would change focussing nor C-AF lock if you are tracking say a moving animal. Could you explain why you chose these?

windsprite
01-21-2008, 04:00 PM
Another question: I just want to make sure of the wording of the poll. If we do the test and the results are okay, but we still have problems focusing on real-life subjects, are we still supposed to mark "I am NOT having any issues with the focusing system of the E-3"?

Johnmcl7
01-21-2008, 05:06 PM
I don't think I'm having focussing issues, pictures seem to come out sharp and in focus - I have to say I'm really pleased with the output straight from the camera. Perhaps I'm not pushing the camera hard enough but reading through the threads on the issue I think I should have noticed the issue quite clearly if I had it. I've not touched any of my other 4/3 cameras since getting the E-3.

Admittedly I'm not sure of the speed though, the demo E-3 and 12-60mm I tried seem to lock on immediately. My one seems to zip to the target but then hesitates for a moment before locking on. There was almost a month gap between the two so I may be incorrect about the demo E-3.

John

tspore
01-21-2008, 05:12 PM
Tony, thanks for this tool, it should be very helpful.
I have a question. I opened it in PSE, and all the marks are more than half a target box to the right of where they should be, ie. not centered. Does this happen to anybody else?
It should not be 1/2 off. It may be slightly off. Did you hold shift when you pulled it onto a new picture. It should center up on the exposure fine. Maybe grab it by the middle point?


I have tried various settings and finally sent mine in.
I did not see how spiral would change focussing nor C-AF lock if you are tracking say a moving animal. Could you explain why you chose these?
I really nearly change settings from one shoot to the next. It depends on what I am shooting.

The spiral vs loop setting is how you scroll through the focus points using the control wheels. So for example instead of just staying on 1 row, it changes down to the next row.


Another question: I just want to make sure of the wording of the poll. If we do the test and the results are okay, but we still have problems focusing on real-life subjects, are we still supposed to mark "I am NOT having any issues with the focusing system of the E-3"?
If you are having issues with real life subject mark that you are still having issues.



Admittedly I'm not sure of the speed though, the demo E-3 and 12-60mm I tried seem to lock on immediately. My one seems to zip to the target but then hesitates for a moment before locking on. There was almost a month gap between the two so I may be incorrect about the demo E-3.
John
I think that the E-3 is very very fast to focus. If you are using all the points instead of just 1 it is slightly slower? Maybe that is the issue.

windsprite
01-21-2008, 06:00 PM
It should not be 1/2 off. It may be slightly off. Did you hold shift when you pulled it onto a new picture. It should center up on the exposure fine. Maybe grab it by the middle point?
I just double clicked on the icon, it opened itself in PSE, and it was very off-center. I didn't notice until I had gone through a bunch of images, and I was thinking, "Wow, my E-3's VF must be way off." :D It must be something with my program.

Anyway, I recropped the overlay as soon as I noticed, but I just thought people might want to check theirs before using it.

Thanks.

Bob&Glennie
01-21-2008, 08:29 PM
Hi Tony,

I am satisfied with the AF perfomance of my E3 except with the 50mm f2. However, I don't believe that the fault lies with the camera as this lens behaves similar on my E1 and E500. I find that it takes 2 or 3 tries to get a sharp auto focus with this lens.

All other lenses i.e. 14-45, 14-54, 40-150, 50-200 and a Sigma 55-200 give me good auto focus both alone and in combination with the TC14 so I shall vote that I don't have AF issues with my E3. I don't have the TC20 or the 12-60.

Bob

tspore
01-21-2008, 10:00 PM
That is the nature of Macro lenses. Perhaps at some point the 50mm will be given an upgrade SWD version. (That was even slower to focus that the 50-200 in my opinion) But a Macro lens has a lot further to travel. So I would say that it that's just how it is.

OzRay
01-21-2008, 10:12 PM
My focus doesn't work (I don't even have an E3 now). I gave up on all tests because, where it counts, the focus wasn't worth squat. I've proven time and time again that under the same circumstances, both the E410 and E1 could deliver the goods, while the E3 could not. All I can now do is wait to see what Olympus does.

Cheers

Ray

Johannes
01-21-2008, 10:33 PM
Well .... 25% so far ... and stable ........
Wish Olympus fix it asap, and give us an E-rror Free E-3 .......

Holy Ghosted
01-21-2008, 11:04 PM
25% is a huge percentage for a product QC issue or something small. Are any other forums posting such large numbers of problems or is every one here.

tspore
01-21-2008, 11:53 PM
I think that in reality it is not that bad. But it is an issue. there will be a higher number than the reality, because only people with the issue will be looking for help, where as if you don't have any issues, you will not be looking for AF issues.

Hokuto
01-22-2008, 12:27 AM
Remember that Canadian Oly PR campaign? "Bought a Canon? Sorry about that. Next time get it right the first time."

Doesn't look so good for Oly anymore, does it. :no:

OzRay
01-22-2008, 12:33 AM
Remember that Canadian Oly PR campaign? "Bought a Canon? Sorry about that. Next time get it right the first time."

Doesn't look so good for Oly anymore, does it. :no:


Too right, hubris seems to have taken over and suddenly Olympus was hoist by their own petard. I still want to be able to say 'I was done right by Olympus', but it's taking a shed load longer than I would have expected. Not even an offer for a temporary replacement body.

Cheers

Ray

Holy Ghosted
01-22-2008, 12:55 AM
Too right, hubris seems to have taken over and suddenly Olympus was hoist by their own petard. I still want to be able to say 'I was done right by Olympus', but it's taking a shed load longer than I would have expected. Not even an offer for a temporary replacement body.

Cheers

Ray

On Olympus America web page (i don't know about all countries) you have to go to Digital DSLR and on the left you will see a tab that says pro service go there in the middle of the page is a LINK Application form http://www.olympusamerica.com/files/OGPS_Application.pdf . You will need to fill that out and be approved to be able to receive a back up body while yours is in for repair. It is only offered to working professionals.
I hope this helps

OzRay
01-22-2008, 01:19 AM
On Olympus America web page (i don't know about all countries) you have to go to Digital DSLR and on the left you will see a tab that says pro service go there in the middle of the page is a LINK Application form http://www.olympusamerica.com/files/OGPS_Application.pdf . You will need to fill that out and be approved to be able to receive a back up body while yours is in for repair. It is only offered to working professionals.
I hope this helps

We have (had) the same. It seems that complacency has set in, now that all services are sourced from Sydney, Australia. I miss the Melbourne, Australia, service centre.

Cheers

Ray

Johnmcl7
01-22-2008, 04:48 AM
I think that the E-3 is very very fast to focus. If you are using all the points instead of just 1 it is slightly slower? Maybe that is the issue.

It's just one AF point I use, the camera immediately jumps to the focus point but then hesitates for a moment before getting a light up/beep. The focus movement is incredibly fast but I'm not sure if this hesitation should be there, I'll need to make a short video clip showing it and see what people think.

John

matthew
01-22-2008, 06:44 AM
John, that sounds normal. The focus routine seems to be a quick move to "pretty good" with a final adjustment (or two) to "dead on". I find I can hear it more easily than see it, as it's a quick double-pulse from the motor. If the focus distance doesn't change much, then a single move will often do, so it's not something that always happens.

spamcop99
01-22-2008, 08:02 PM
Tony,

I haven't seen it mentioned here (or many other places), but have you tried adjusting the "AF Sensitivity" setting to "Small" instead of "Normal"?

I had what appeared to be a focusing problem where portraits looked soft even though I was locking focus on an eye (as I've always done) and then recomposing the frame to shoot. It was obviously focusing on something "closer" so things like the nose and shirt were tack sharp but the eyes were not.

So I finally cracked the manual and read page 90 concerning this AF Sensitivity setting and changed it from "Normal" to "Small". The default "Normal" setting does more of a "center-weighted" focus where it focuses "using a range that is somewhat larger than the selected AF target." Using the "Small" setting forces the camera to focus "only within the selected AF target." To me, that's like a "spot" focus the likes of which have always been default on every camera I've used when set to a single focus point. To be honest, I think it was foolish of Oly to set the default for this setting to "Normal" and open themselves up to a raft of people complaining about focus issues. Which is not to say some legitimate issues don't exist, but in my mind, this just stacks the deck against them from the outset...

Voila, problem solved (for my needs at least)...

Cheers,
Dylan

Hokuto
01-22-2008, 08:37 PM
Tony,

I haven't seen it mentioned here (or many other places), but have you tried adjusting the "AF Sensitivity" setting to "Small" instead of "Normal"?


Dylan, as I mentioned over on the Other Site, this issue has a long history here; unfortunately, the site's search function refuses to operate on words with only five letters ("focus", "small" --Tony, hint, hint!), so you won't find them with the search function, but there are literally hundreds of responses, and the "small" versus "normal" size target is discussed in each thread. Here are three to begin with:

http://www.fourthirdsphoto.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=20280
http://www.fourthirdsphoto.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=20948
http://www.fourthirdsphoto.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=20049

matthew
01-22-2008, 09:09 PM
Google is your friend: put "site:fourthirdsphoto.com" in the search box when using Google to select only results from this site.

For example,
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=small+focus+e-3+site:fourthirdsphoto.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

windsprite
01-22-2008, 09:22 PM
Or: there's a Google search tool right on this site. Go to Search as usual, choose the Google search, and make sure the fourhthirdsphoto.com box is checked.

OzRay
01-22-2008, 10:51 PM
Just a bit of feedback. I received a call today from the Olympus service centre as well as my dealer who's been speaking with the sales rep.

The service rep asked a lot of questions to clarify/expand on points I'd written in a fairly comprehensive letter that I'd included with the camera. They had done a number of test shots in the service centre, probably of their test target and random office stuff and hadn't really found any issues. But they admitted that probably didn't emulate my work routine. We covered a fair bit of ground in our discussion about AF settings, subject matter, environmental conditions and the like, to establish some further facts on how and where I work. I don't think that there's much more that I could have given them and I was told that they'd get back to me tomorrow with a solution.

My dealer has been pushing to get this thing resolved, and I'm very grateful for that, and was told by the sales rep that it was not Olympus Australia policy to replace the E3, if it had problems; however, they would do all they could to resolve the issue. I'm not exactly sure what sort of solution can be arrived at under the circumstances. The service department has, I would assume from the conversation, no official Olympus Japan service bulletin on which they can act when it comes to faulty AF on the E3, so the service department cannot officially repair the camera.

If Olympus Australia has a policy not to replace faulty cameras, but has no guidance in a case like this, then all I can assume is that they will return my E3, with a statement saying that there is no problem with the AF. However, the camera as sent in is unusable, which would mean I'd be between a rock and a hard place.

Cheers

Ray

Johannes
01-22-2008, 11:07 PM
Just a bit of feedback. ........
Cheers

Ray

Ray, they will keep it until to go to collect it and do nothing more on it?
Will you go and reproduce the faults in front of their service people?

OzRay
01-22-2008, 11:26 PM
I can't really say anything until I hear from them. I do hope that I don't get stuffed around, or it just might be the tipping point to becoming a Nikonian.

Cheers

Ray

martin kimeldorf
01-23-2008, 08:35 AM
I'm getting back a new one, without any testing...just replacing...why don't you refer them to Oly USA for a precedent....

Rand47
01-23-2008, 09:41 AM
As reported in another thread, my replacement E-3 "seems" less wonky than the first two, but is still "in the soup" in some situations re the ability of the AF system to work reliably.

What this may mean (I HOPE NOT, THOUGH) is that Olympus is yet to be convinced that there may be an endemic problem. To wit, they're just replacing bodies, rather than thinking about solving some root problem. I don't mean this as a criticism of Olympus, merely that all the pieces of the puzzle have not been seen by the right people yet. We have folk from the US, OZ, Europe, Japan, etc., all experiencing the same problem. All of those locactions, service centers are swapping bodies out, but perhaps the reason for the body swaps hasn't reached HQ to send up a red flag. I'm just tying to think through to a reason why we have not heard from Olympus on this problem as of now.

Another reason that I'm feeling that my thinking above may be correct is that Julie (windsprite) and I have received replacement bodies and have found them to be defective also. In Julie's case, worse than the first one, and in my case seemingly a little better than the first one. If Olympus HQ has / had determined that this is a case of QC problems on some bodies, presumably a small portion of their inventory, one would think that they would assure that the bodies they give out as replacements were not also defective. But this doesn't seem to be the case. At least not for Julie and me.

Forgive my rambling. What I've written is obviously speculation re Olympus HQ and what they may or may not know. I'm just at that "head scratching" stage regarding what the future may hold for us in getting things straightened out.

InigMntoya
01-23-2008, 06:10 PM
It should not be 1/2 off. It may be slightly off. Did you hold shift when you pulled it onto a new picture. It should center up on the exposure fine. Maybe grab it by the middle point?

I don't have an E-3, but pulled the file down out of curiosity. :-)

Anyway, take a look below. The green and red bars are of equal size -- I created one manually on the "shorter" side of things, then duplicated the layer and moved it to the other side to show the "gaps". The blue lines are at the 50% mark (according to PS).

tspore
01-23-2008, 08:58 PM
Must have moved a bit before I uploaded it. I made it so it should not not, and reuploaded it.

Derek Wright
01-24-2008, 12:54 PM
We had some sun today so I went out to take the picture of the corner, took two pictures - then went to swap lenses and the camera stopped commncationg with the lens -- no aperture info or focus control,
:a.
pushed pins removed lens - no joy,
pushed pins swapped lens - no joy
goto a:


Gave up, rang Oly - send it for repair or see if dealer will swap the body.

Dealer so far cannot find another body, OLY UK so far does not have any stock - so back to the repair shop to go under the knife and a good lubrication.

snoack
01-24-2008, 01:58 PM
Tony,
thanks a lot for the viewfinder.psd - exactly what i was looking for to analyse my misfocused pics.

BTW: If the viewfinder image is not correctly alligned after dragging it over the image, just select the layer below it (the one with the original image, i.e. background) in the layers palette and press Ctrl+A. Next select the layer (it's a layer group) with the viewfinder image in the layers palette. In the layers menu choose Align Layer horizontally centered and vertically centered - this places the center AF-field exactly over the center of the image. Finish with Ctrl+D to deselect the selection on the background layer.

:smile: Sabine

snoack
01-24-2008, 02:39 PM
Not sure if my observations are helpful, but i'm experiencing the problem with S-AF and single AF-Field, focus confirmed by camera, AF-field confirmed by camera but focus is somewhere else in the resulting picture, usually in an area with a lot of contrast in the lower left or right areas of the image, looking like severe front- or backfocus depending on my motive. I'm always trying to focus on something that is basically focusable. I'm using S-AF only, no MF, shutter priority is OFF and i'm aware of the specific behaviour of the 12-60. So far these problems only occurred when focussing on a small target in a rather 3-dimensional area, like the head of a baby lying on a cushion, a butterfly in a bush, ... Landscape and architecture so far worked very well without any problems. The problem isn't related to a single lens, i can reproduce it with the 12-60, 14-54, 50 and 50-200 (old).

I've tried to reset the camera as well as tried a combination of all AF-related settings, even ESP+AF and ESP without AF. No matter what setting, i can reproduce the problem.
I've run focustests with three different charts with all my lenses - no problem there.


I first noticed the problem when i was reviewing ~200 pics of my newborn nephew, all taken with the 12-60 and the 50. I had used the center AF-field and focused on the edge of one of his eyes. He ways lying on a checkered cushion and in 30% of my images, the eye was way out of focus but the cushion was. Since 60% of the images were OK and 100% of the images i took with the E-510 were OK too, i'd rule out swaying.
What puzzeled my is the fact that the camera thought it had focused correctly. Then i remembered some images of visits to the zoo and a tropical butterfly show. I routinely delete OOF images but remembered a few with the same way off focus.

Since my sister didn't want to lend me my nephew for a camera test ;)i painted a face on a large grapefruit, put it on a cushion with a nice pattern, mounted the E-3 on my tripod and did some tests with my lenses and different AF-related settings. The result is what i expected: ~66% of the images are perfectly focused, the rest is way off, no matter what setting i tried. Areas in focus were always the same though (slightly below the middle and way left) I always used S-AF and single AF-field (the one in the center) only, but changed to S-AF+MF to turn the focusring between each shot, then switched back to S-AF.

I don't think it's necessary to post pics of the setup and results but i can, if anybody is interested. What i'd like to know is if i'm the only one where areas in focus always appear in the lower half of the image and way left or right from the center, i.e. somewhere close but not exactly under the two lower and outer AF-fields.

I have to admit that i skipped Tony's test. I found it today after my own test session and simply didn't feel like testing again.

:smile: Sabine

niloc
01-24-2008, 07:55 PM
I have owned an E3 since boxing day, 50 mm macro, 14-54mm standard and just purchased today and received a 70-300mm telephoto, no issues with the focus so far and don't anticpiate any..my biggest problem with the E3 was locating a 70-300mm lens in Canada I ended up buying one from a store in NY and shipping it up...cheers

Johannes
01-25-2008, 12:25 AM
If you have issues. Then wait for 7 days or so and right after PMA I will see what I can gather.

Does it means something will be out on Jan 29th? :evilgrin:

tspore
01-25-2008, 12:54 AM
Does it means something will be out on Jan 29th? :evilgrin:

I have no ideas. I am going to see what they have to say.

Johannes
01-25-2008, 12:59 AM
I have no ideas. I am going to see what they have to say.

I see, wish they solve all problems before PMA :smile:

tspore
01-25-2008, 10:40 AM
I don't know that for a fact.
We will see.

Johnmcl7
01-27-2008, 06:34 PM
John, that sounds normal. The focus routine seems to be a quick move to "pretty good" with a final adjustment (or two) to "dead on". I find I can hear it more easily than see it, as it's a quick double-pulse from the motor. If the focus distance doesn't change much, then a single move will often do, so it's not something that always happens.

Thanks for the confirmation, I was fairly sure it was normal otherwise I would have been asking about it earlier. I was mucking about shooting raindrops on a restaurant window last night, when I missed focus the E-3 locked onto a distant background object (which is expected as the raindrops were small) - I don't know how they can make it focus so fast, the distance indicator is just a blur as it zips from one end to the other of the focus scale.

John

Jan
01-28-2008, 12:05 PM
My E3 consequently miss the focuspoint, I have tried it with the the 50 f2, 14-54, 12-60, old 50-200, and today the new 50-200 SWD lens.
I have tried the same targets with my wife's E410, spot on!

lovemaster
06-16-2008, 07:39 AM
Just got an E3 and have found that it front focuses on all lenses if you are more than a couple of feet from the subject. It seems fine if you are doing close-ups. I'll have to do some testing before I see about a replacement. I shot 200 photos at the safari park all front focused. Not a good start. Is it normal for the 12-60 to focus past infinity? Mine does.

Spoke too soon. It can miss the focus point when close. I can get the 12-60 to focus manually so the lens can focus.

lovemaster
07-03-2008, 07:33 AM
It saddens me to make this post. I have now had 2 E3 kits and both of them had focusing issues. I have decided to return the E3 and use the credit to purchase another camera. I'm sorry to say it won't be an Olympus. I thought long and hard about buying the E3 and the thing that brought me back was the Zuiko lenses. I'm absolutely gutted.