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Thread: The next E-pro...

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    I agree with you Peter.

    There is no way I'd like to use the original mock-up from Photokina - where are the controls? In reality , a useful camera must have buttons etc. in the right places and it must feel god in the hands. The images we have been drooling over lately shows exactly what kind of compromises the engineers must struggle with in order to fuse the new with the functional. Since the E-1 was already a pretty good ergonomic design, the final thing is bound to be more E-1-like than Photokina mock-up-like. Just check out this comparison (bodies are to scale):
    Attachment 4068
    (E-Pro from dcwatch, Mock-up from Mytikas, and E-1 from my own optics laboratory.)

    On top of that a Flagship must contain the best technology of the company. A pop-up flash or an articulated screen doesn't make it less of a flagship - maybe a bit less 'conventionally pro'. However, I'm not surprised if Olympus makes a Pro-light model with these features in order to attract wedding and studio-type photographers that are not abusing the cameras the same way as they would be as commune cameras in a press office. However, I agree that a pop-up flash and an articulating screen would be the same as giving WO in the sports photography arena. Maybe they have given up that segment but want to give the rest of the photographic pro's something different?

    I'm pretty convinced that the final E-Pro will look very much like it does here and a pop-up flash or other things will not prevent me from using it if they don't impede with my shooting style. I could for example not live with a flash that pops up by it self just because the light gets low or because something else in the camera bag squeeses the release button.

    Cheers, Jens.
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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterMG View Post
    Letís wait and see.
    Have been for 4-5 months. Since the clay model introduction. Some have been waiting even longer.

    Any other camera maker shown one "design" waited months and shown another "design", and then had their followers wait some more, not only for the design, but for the official specs too?

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    I am glad camera releases are not like computer components. You get a new video card every 6 months with few features added for premium cost. I rather see them wait and release a product with decent upgrades for the money.

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Folks...........

    You are in a big panic and calling doom over nothing.

    You can be patient a little while longer or there are a whole bunch of options that may be better to your liking.

    Canon and Nikon sell cameras too. Give them a try if you can't wait.

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Quote Originally Posted by mckennma View Post
    I am glad camera releases are not like computer components. You get a new video card every 6 months with few features added for premium cost. I rather see them wait and release a product with decent upgrades for the money.
    I couldn't agree with you more! Plus a good lens will always be good whereas a good computer component is normally obselete within a few months.

    John
    Olympus E-1, Olympus E-500, Olympus E-330, Olympus DMC-L1, Olympus E-510, Olympus E-3, 7-14mm,12-60mm, 14-42mm, 14-45mm, 14-50mm(Leica), 14-54MM, Sigma 30mm, 35-100mm, 40-150mm(Mk1), 50mm (macro), 50-200mm, 'Bigma' 50-500mm, EC-14, EC-20, FL-36, FL-50, HLD-4, Lowepro Rezo 140AW, Slingshot 100AW

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Quote Originally Posted by laingjd View Post
    Folks...........

    You are in a big panic and calling doom over nothing.
    I wouldn't call it a panic. I'm not running out and selling my E-1s because they're not working now that the new cameras have been announced. I doubt anyone else will either. You could call this speculation with a touch of disappointment, at least for those of us who were expecting a more rugged and traditional professional level of design.

    You can be patient a little while longer or there are a whole bunch of options that may be better to your liking.
    I agree and I do plan on waiting a bit longer as I have a significant investment in ZD glass, although I think many of us have been patient long enough. I doubt Olympus will disappoint it's pro users after waiting this long, or at least I hope so.

    Canon and Nikon sell cameras too. Give them a try if you can't wait.
    As I hinted at before, thats what the plan is. If I'm unsatisfied in the direction Olympus is going with pro bodies when its finally released, I'll probably get a couple used 1D mkIIs or one mkIII (now sporting some features that Olympus bodies do).
    -Brian

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    Default But WHEN?

    That is the $2000 question?
    If the E-510 is going to be available in June (Am I right?), and the E-X in August, I'll skip the E-510 and go for the E-X. But if the E-X isn't going to be available until who knows where, I might just go for the E-510.

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    There might be a few things about the new E-1 that are unusual for a pro camera, but how many people purchased the current E-1 because they thought it was conventional.

    I think the screen is going to be pretty handy. I was holding a camera over my head tonight trying to get a crowd shot, and I could have used that screen. I was shooting two people fishing last week and was trying to shoot at low angle just above the water. If I had that screen, I would not have filled my chest waders full of water by squatting.

    I've owned a body with a pop up flash and never found it to be particularly useful, but it doesn't hurt to have it. You know they wouldn't put it on there if it affected weather sealing.

    If we get 10mp, greatly improved autofocus, more focus points, 5 or more fps, new processor to improve speed and noise and image stabilization what is there going to be to complain about.

    It looks to me like they are trying to give us a camera that has everything that anyone ever asked for. I appreciate that. I still use a Leica M4-P for fun. I guess the exposure and shoot. There's nothing you can do but set the shutter speed and aperture. But when I'm shooting for business, I want a camera that has more features than what I normally use. There might be a time when I need them.
    Steve

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Greetings,

    I'm glad I was wrong about the remote cable and external flash connecters. It's now obvious that they are both present. The same goes for the built-in flash; but I'm ambivalent about its presence as long as it is weathersealed---and I'm inclinded to trust Olympus on this one like Jens. I'm confident they'll do a good job with it.

    On balance, I'm very excited and look forward to learning more...
    Best regards, FL

    Pursuing excellence...

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    I'm going to retract one of my statements after a thought came to mind about the LCD. If it works well in bright light, then it could be an excellent substitute for the VA-1 angle finder, as it's always on the camera. Secondly, it may also be useful for those 'Hail Mary' shots when you're having to shoot over a crowd. If it's implemented well, then it could be a very good feature that's lacking in any other pro body.

    On the subject of dials, I think this is old hat thinking. There is no reason for dials except to retain nostalgia. The PASM dial could be easily removed and replaced by a well positioned button that enables this feature (in conjunction with one of the dials). It would make the body more weatherproof and possibly more reliable having one less mechanical dial.

    The only thing I don't see on the new body is the S-AF, C-AF, MF switch - it may have been replaced by one of the Fn buttons, like perhaps the PASM dial. Perhaps by holding down the Fn button and turning the front control wheel, you can enable the PASM mode and by using the rear wheel, you enable the S-AF, C-AF, MF mode or vice versa. You may even be able to program these sequences to suit your personal preferences.

    Cheers

    Ray

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    I don't see how the LCD would be useful taking a shot in crowded area with your hands straight up. The angle between your eye and LCD is close to Zero(unless you were shooting a plane). That cannot be really useful in my opinion.

    Regarding the flash, well I don't know how many people will actually use it if they FL36 or FL50. Maybe for a quick fill flash, but I doubt it it will be used a lot to justify its presence on the camera.

    Regards

    Marek

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Marek,

    the LCD can be angled up-down as well as side-wise to give the right vieing angle.

    I suppose it will not be impossible to use the E-Pro for snap shots? I have an E-1 but I seldom bring any of my flashes unless I know I will need one. That also means that I'm frequently missing a small flash now and then whenever I just want to take a snap shot - like of friends who are over for a visit etc.

    Cheers, Jens.
    Motto: Wildlife won't come to me unless I go to it.
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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    This is a niche market, but screens can't tilt in underwater housings, so I'm happy with it.

    these new LCD screens can be seen from many angles, so you can see *something* if you hold it over your head. Enough to get somebody framed and not cut a head off. But not enough for really precise composing, obviously. It's certainly not a 10, but I don't think it's a 0, either.

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    I was comparing photos of the proposed E-1 replacement on Mike Johnstons "The Online Photographer" blog, as he has nearly juxtaposed shots of the old prototype from last year's Photokina and the latest proposal, supposedly to be available "later". To my admittedly limited sense of aesthetic, the older version without the popup flash or hinged LCD appears to be the camera I'd want over the feature-rich later version. I wonder if it is even possible that both cameras will be available, one with all the bells and whistles, and another, simpler version sans popup flash, etc.? Most likely wishful thinking, I guess. I hate that I'm even posting this, but since Ozray started this thread, I think it has a degree of credibility, at least it did until I started whining. Truth is, I'll buy the next weather sealed Olympus DSLR when it is available, and the price has settled down a bit.

    Rocky

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Just an observation from an amateur, I remember a few months back seeing E-1 prototype displays from Photokinia that looked nothing like what we are seeing now.

    Edit; I see Jens has already covered this observation, my bad.

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    I don't see how the LCD would be useful taking a shot in crowded area with your hands straight up. The angle between your eye and LCD is close to Zero(unless you were shooting a plane). That cannot be really useful in my opinion.

    Regarding the flash, well I don't know how many people will actually use it if they FL36 or FL50. Maybe for a quick fill flash, but I doubt it it will be used a lot to justify its presence on the camera.

    Regards

    Marek
    I have a Canon G-5 with the articulated viewing screen. It's not terribly useful, but it does have applications.

    Roger

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Depends what you're doing with the camera, I rarely use liveview without articulating the screen.

    John
    Olympus E-1, Olympus E-500, Olympus E-330, Olympus DMC-L1, Olympus E-510, Olympus E-3, 7-14mm,12-60mm, 14-42mm, 14-45mm, 14-50mm(Leica), 14-54MM, Sigma 30mm, 35-100mm, 40-150mm(Mk1), 50mm (macro), 50-200mm, 'Bigma' 50-500mm, EC-14, EC-20, FL-36, FL-50, HLD-4, Lowepro Rezo 140AW, Slingshot 100AW

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    I don't see how the LCD would be useful taking a shot in crowded area with your hands straight up. The angle between your eye and LCD is close to Zero(unless you were shooting a plane). That cannot be really useful in my opinion.
    As stated above, the screen will flip out and rotate (probably 270 degrees) I had a Nikon P&S that had this feature, and it was the best thing ever!

    This is the Nikon I had:

    Forget shooting at waist level, how about shooting around a corner!


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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Quote Originally Posted by OzRay View Post
    ...The only thing I don't see on the new body is the S-AF, C-AF, MF switch - it may have been replaced by one of the Fn buttons, like perhaps the PASM dial. Perhaps by holding down the Fn button and turning the front control wheel, you can enable the PASM mode and by using the rear wheel, you enable the S-AF, C-AF, MF mode or vice versa. You may even be able to program these sequences to suit your personal preferences.
    Hi Ray,

    I found an autofocus button on the left of the pentaprism hump. It's in a group of three buttons which I've noted in the photo below:


    This isn't the best photo but it's the one I have handy. Just ignore the labels on the side of the pentaprism hump for the time being (these buttons appear to have multiple functions). The buttons have the following labels on the buttons, themselves:
    • lighting bolt (flash mode)
    • "MODE" (could this be the exposure mode?)
    • "AF" (autofocus)
    I'm not sure if the "MODE" button is the exposure mode (PASM) but I think it may be. As for the "AF" button, we don't know if it controls the focus mode (MF, S-AF, C-AF) or the focus sensor selection.

    While thinking about this, I realized that use of an electronic switch for the focus mode instead of a mechanical switch offers many new possibilities because the focus mode can now be controlled by the camera's microprocessor and that means it can (hopefully) be saved as part of a shooting preset along with your other settings. I like this idea a lot.

    But I will miss the feel of a mechanical switch. Because I wear eyeglasses, it is difficult to keep an eye on the data display in the viewfinder so I rely on my fingers to tell me what focus mode I'm using---I rapidly switch between MF and S-AF during some shoots when the lighting is low. I have the AF function also assigned to my AEL button when in MF mode but I often forget to use it (plus it's easier to find the mechanical switch on the E-1).
    Best regards, FL

    Pursuing excellence...

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    I don't see how the LCD would be useful taking a shot in crowded area with your hands straight up. The angle between your eye and LCD is close to Zero(unless you were shooting a plane). That cannot be really useful in my opinion.

    Regarding the flash, well I don't know how many people will actually use it if they FL36 or FL50. Maybe for a quick fill flash, but I doubt it it will be used a lot to justify its presence on the camera.

    Regards

    Marek
    Actually, it can work very well indeed, if it has the same feature as the Panasonic LX2. With the Panasonic, you press a button and invoke 'Hail Mary' mode and you can see the screen with absolute clarity when the camera is held above your head. But with a tilting screen, you get further benefit.

    Cheers

    Ray

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    Quote Originally Posted by First Light View Post
    Hi Ray,

    I found an autofocus button on the left of the pentaprism hump. It's in a group of three buttons which I've noted in the photo below:

    • lighting bolt (flash mode)
    • "MODE" (could this be the exposure mode?)
    • "AF" (autofocus)
    I'm not sure if the "MODE" button is the exposure mode (PASM) but I think it may be. As for the "AF" button, we don't know if it controls the focus mode (MF, S-AF, C-AF) or the focus sensor selection.
    FL

    I had an inkling that Olympus was going to use buttons and the control wheels to adjust Mode and AF when I saw the earlier iteration being bare of dials and switches.

    I think that this is very intelligent design and provides vastly improved options capability, such as remote control of the camera and many other features, as you alluded.

    This is Olympus once again thinking out of the square and putting to use practical features now available through electronics.

    Cheers

    Ray

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    The button changes are pretty easy. I use a Mark IIN and the buttons make it pretty simple. One thing with the Olympus (the best I can tell from the photos) is that you don't have to push two buttons at the same time to make some changes. With the Mark II you have to push two buttons for ISO and drive. That may be a safety feature but it's somewhat of a pain.

    As long as I can change all of the important setting without going into the menus, I don't care how it's done.
    Steve

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    Default Re: I misread Steve's post ...

    Sorry, I was replying to Steve and thought he said he made shots in crowded area with a camera WITHOUT articulating screen. That's why I said what I said. My bad, I misread his post.

    Of course I want and hope that E5xx will get it one day too, otherwise LV is useless in my opinion as I said many times before.

    Regards

    Marek

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    Default Re: I misread Steve's post ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    Sorry, I was replying to Steve and thought he said he made shots in crowded area with a camera WITHOUT articulating screen. That's why I said what I said. My bad, I misread his post.

    Of course I want and hope that E5xx will get it one day too, otherwise LV is useless in my opinion as I said many times before.

    Regards

    Marek
    I was talking about taking crowd shots by holding the camera over my head and pointing it slightly down with a fixed screen. With a screen that pulls out and can tilt down I would actually be able to see what I am doing. Over the years, I have taken a lot of shots like that when I've had nothing to stand on. That's a feature I never really expected to every have on an SLR. But with live view and that moving screen it's possible. I will be tickled to have it.
    Steve

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    Default Re: The next E-pro...

    I could envision myself using a pop up flash on the new E-1 for certain things. If I was shooting indoors using available light, I could tape a tungston gel over the flash, crank it down 2/3rds of a stop and use it for fill. I use floresent and tungston gels now on my flashes when I shoot under those lights and set the wb for the available lighting. It works well for balancing light.

    I don't think you would be able to use a flash in the shoe with the pop up like you can with the E-300 or E-330, but if you have a flash on a bracket you could use the shoe mount flash for bounce and the pop up for fill.

    If Olympus puts it on there, I'll figure out a way to use it.

    Steve

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