Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 53

Thread: I am NEVER shooting raw again

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,266
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    possibility that you are trying to save the developed images in an unavailable destination? I have had this when my external drive, which was addressed in Master2 as the destination, wasn't being recognised by the computer. I it's saving the jpegs back to their orf destination this is unlikely though.

    I used RAW to learn what the camera JPEG settings were doing, for which Oly Master is excellent.

    Now I use it for the odd shots but not 'trips' etc except where I am nervous about settings - recently this was a Tour de France 'set' where I shot 100 playing around when I arrived but only 7 when the cycling went past (and it would have been 3 or 4 if they hadn't spit into 2 groups!) so processing was no great pain. In the end I adjusted 1 shot by 0.1ev in the processing (so I guess the practicing paid off!)

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Knoxville
    Posts
    2,437
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    200 files is not terribly many. There was a software glitch where it just wasn't working right. It wouldn't even show it in the edit window, just the thumbnails. Once it decided to show the photo in the edit window, it decided to work

    Oly customer service has replied to my email. I gave them a link to this part of the forum and asked for their software people to see what is being said about their products.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,424
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Well I managed to Kill Studio! haha. I loaded 763 RAWs from my last wedding and for fun I started to process all of them. It did not get far!

    I knew this would kill Master too so I did not bother. But I had downloaded Studio and it was the first time I opened the application.

    What I did find interesting was Studio uses 1/3 less resources on my system but runs about as fast. I see no benefit to using Studio over Master for Processing but the shooting tethered or time laps is nice.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    2,354
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Quote Originally Posted by llpoolej View Post
    I have never seen a real advantage to raw, unless I really needed to recover highlights or low lights. If I exposed properly, not a difference.
    *DING*

    Another winner!

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Knoxville
    Posts
    2,437
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Jim, I swear, I live my life trying to see how I can complicate it and make myself crazy. This was NOT the time to test out raw on the 510. When I got home and was not going nuts would have been it.

    I have done tests and print tests and there just isn't a difference for me. I guess if I were going to heavily manipulate them, or if I had iffy situations, but even then, unless I really miss the exposure, it isn't much help. On a highlight issue, yeah, raw helps. That is about it.

    Back to jpg for me!!!!

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,424
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    For me the real benefit is the speed that I can edit a large number of shots. Once loaded in Capture 1 I can edit so much faster than I can edit jepgs in photoshop no matter how many key board short cuts I know.

    But when shooting wedding and the light is constantly changing, shooting RAW is just so amazing for Colour Correction.

    If you are shooting an event like a horse jumping event where you are shooting the same jump all the time then for sure, do a custom white balance, set your exposure in manual mode and put it on jpeg! Save hard drive space and time!

    But when I can edit a 1000 RAWs from a wedding in 2-3 hours thats where RAW is killer. Edit my shots, convert to jpeg and delete the RAWs! Saves me so much time and money!

    In the end its all about work flow and what works for you! When I shot a cat show a couple of weeks ago it was a studio shoot. Pose the car and shoot the cat. No need for RAWs there so I shot jpeg!

    RAW is a tool just like your camera and lens, its just a matter of knowing when its best to use it.

    Kelly

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    3,649
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Quote Originally Posted by llpoolej View Post
    Back to jpg for me!!!!
    To each her own! Well, there is certainly no need to complicate your life for no reason. If you're getting the results you need and want with JPEG, that's enough reason.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Knoxville
    Posts
    2,437
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    It took just at THREE hours to develop 195 images. Wow. No, this is not a benefit to me.

    It worked though, so, I have stopped complaining(sorta)

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    609
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Quote Originally Posted by llpoolej View Post
    It took just at THREE hours to develop 195 images.

    that's even slower than the abysmal rate that I got when I timed a couple of 10 image batches to check the apparent slowness of Studio 2...

    my results would have predicted 29 minutes for Raw Developer, 39 minutes for Studio 1, and 217 minutes for Studio 2....

    and that's just batching time - if you wanted to actually preview each image and make individual adjustments, the Studio 2 batch would probably take about a week....
    doreen

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    2,354
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Quote Originally Posted by llpoolej View Post
    Jim, I swear, I live my life trying to see how I can complicate it and make myself crazy. This was NOT the time to test out raw on the 510. When I got home and was not going nuts would have been it.

    I have done tests and print tests and there just isn't a difference for me. I guess if I were going to heavily manipulate them, or if I had iffy situations, but even then, unless I really miss the exposure, it isn't much help. On a highlight issue, yeah, raw helps. That is about it.

    Back to jpg for me!!!!

    I've seen your stuff.
    I have an opinion.
    I will get chastized and beaten with sticks for this.

    Digital Photography has made people lazy. A lot of folks would rather spend time post processing RAW files like they are some magical solution to not being able to get the picture the way they want it right out of the camera. Shame on them.

    RAW files, contrary to popular belief are not all the same between camera manufacturers. Even ones with the same sensors. I have done some very recent testing on this theory.

    All RAW files do for you is give you a greater range of control in post processing than you get with a JPEG. They are not what a lot of people think they are. The RAW files from a specific camera that you get are still at the whim of a software and firmware writer and engineer. The data a sensor captures still must be processed from numeric data to digital image files. I learned that between the Leica Digilux 3, the Panasonic L1 and the E-330 there are three different RAW files that are immediately distinguished by the human eye. A LOT different. Period. End of story.

    Julie........you just keep taking the quality of pictures you take with the camera settings you know and after you learn the new camera you won't need RAW files and going blind at the computer trying to produce an image that is not what you saw.

    Post processing by a lot of photographers I have seen are finished products of what the photographer WISHES is what they saw and not a reproduction of the real deal. Think of it as special effects like in the movies. Fake.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,321
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bojan Volcansek View Post
    4. Click on RAW button - RAW converter opens with all images at the bottom checked and first selected image displayed - wait until it's done with whatever it is doing
    Dear Julie, I had to go to bed last night - it was getting too late - past midnight and I had early morning 9AM meeting.

    Anyway, when you do THIS (step 4), then Master will STOP responding, for some quite time - it happened last night with me as well (178 E1 ORFs), by the time I finished the STEP post, it was done - let say 10 minutes.

    After that it finished what ever it was doing (wihtout showing doing anything), and after that you could start steps 5 etc.

    So the only advice I have for you, is
    1. try to be patient (I know not easy - especially if you want something done quickkly)
    2. try have smaller folders - split your 200 files into 10 folder 10 images each to see if it is better.

    Sorry for all troubles

    yours Bojan

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,895
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Julie,

    On the subject of OLY software, I totally agree with you. On Mac OSX using OLY software is just too horrible for words. The software that came with my Lumix FZ20 was almost but not quite as bad. I took one look at it and threw away the CD.

    Clay

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,178
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    bibble does 410 and 510 raw files without problem (be sure to get the 4.9.8c version, older version had issues w/510)

    why raw and not jpg? why buy a ferrari without wheels? raw is the only format that takes full advantage of your camera. if you're a person who doesn't do anything to photos, jpg may be fine for you, but if you modify your images, jpg is a crippled format and it *is* visible.

    (edit: oops, I didn't notice there was a 2nd page of messages)

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    162
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default Here come the sticks!

    Quote Originally Posted by laingjd View Post
    Post processing by a lot of photographers I have seen are finished products of what the photographer WISHES is what they saw and not a reproduction of the real deal. Think of it as special effects like in the movies. Fake.
    From what I recall from reading Adams, this is the point of photography as art as opposed to photojournalism. Since I'm not pushy enough for PJ, I'll stick to a visualize, capture, process workflow that allows me to show the world as I see it. Besides, we all have different eyes, history, etc... that means that no two people actually see the same thing anyway. Think Roshoman.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    2,354
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Archer........I agree with your statement.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Knoxville
    Posts
    2,437
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    I do only enough to my photos to make them look finished. Most of which I cannot do in raw converters. I have many actions that do portrait style things to my photos. None of which can be used in raw.

    If you don't mess up the exposure. Don't need the extra DR latitude, why spend the misery I have spent? Most portrait photographers who have done this digitally for years do not shoot raw. It isn't a help.

    The joy of Oly cameras is the lack of having to fuss with the color! If I wanted to slave over color correction, I would go buy a canon and have the ability to shoot 8fps. The one thing that makes my friend who does shoot a 1D want to switch is the beautiful jpgs sooc.

    This raw experience makes me feel crippled for time. I remember why I gave it up a couple of years ago

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Inverness, Scotland
    Posts
    1,737
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bojan Volcansek View Post
    I KNOW Julie, I know...

    Anyway, I'll explain you how I'm using Oly Master 2 to BULK process my ORFs (in my case from E1).

    I don't know if that will work for 510, I hope it will.

    Ok, what I'm doing:
    1. I have ONE folder with all my ORFs from that shot - card - up to 383 of them
    2. Open Oly Master 2 (my version is 2.03) and select that folder.
    3. Press CTRL + A to select all the images
    4. Click on RAW button - RAW converter opens with all images at the bottom checked and first selected image displayed - wait until it's done with whatever it is doing
    5. on Basic 2 tab I preselect values that I want - but most of the time they are my camera setting (as shot):
    Contrast 0; Sharpening +3; Saturation CS2; Colour Space Adobe RGB
    6. Click Save button, message box pops up
    7. Select Save In where you want your JPEGs saved,
    8. Click on File Naming Rules and select how you want your JPEGs to be named (I select None, clear up box, Original File name, clear up box and None)
    9. Choose format Exif-JPEG
    10. Choose JPEG compression - High Quality
    11. Press Save
    12. Go and have dinner - for 383 images it will finish in let say 20 minutes (I don't know exactly but I never had too big of a problem - could be that my dinners are long?)

    Hope this helps dear Julie,
    if you have problems, please let me know and I'll do my best to help you

    yours bojan
    How do you find the difference in quality using this method compared to out of camera jpegs?

    John
    Olympus E-1, Olympus E-500, Olympus E-330, Olympus DMC-L1, Olympus E-510, Olympus E-3, 7-14mm,12-60mm, 14-42mm, 14-45mm, 14-50mm(Leica), 14-54MM, Sigma 30mm, 35-100mm, 40-150mm(Mk1), 50mm (macro), 50-200mm, 'Bigma' 50-500mm, EC-14, EC-20, FL-36, FL-50, HLD-4, Lowepro Rezo 140AW, Slingshot 100AW

    Panasonic GF1, GH1, 7-14mm, 14-140mm, 20mm F1.7, DMW-MA1 Nikon D700, 24-70mm F2.8, 50mm F1.4G, 70-200mm F2.8, Fuji F72EXR, Casio EX-FH100


    Though I fly through the valley of death I shall feel no fear, for I am at 80,000 feet and climbing

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,321
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnmcl7 View Post
    How do you find the difference in quality using this method compared to out of camera jpegs?

    John
    This is just "quick hack" if you want to get "developed" photos ASAP.
    BUT now, I'll choose photos that really deserve my attention and go and postprocess them with possibility to do better job comparing to if I had only JPEGs.

    Second advantage of having ORFs - if tomorrow better converter IS available, it can bring NEW LIFE into ORFs that are not producing good results with the old converter.

    so - as somebody (I think Marco) said, why pay for Ferrari and then take the wheels out of it.

    Yours Bojan

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic
    Posts
    4,062
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    I just batch processed the shots from yesterday through Master 2 and, though it was slow, the results came out quite good.

    Cheers

    Ray

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,181
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Hi Julie,

    Sorry to hear about all the frustration that you've been through. If you ever anticipate a true need for raw in the future, then I recommend RAW+JPEG. This is the mode that I've used primarily for the last 2 years.

    Nowadays, I almost always discard the original JPEGs and use the raw but I still like having the JPEGs as a backup in case I run into trouble.

    On one large shoot, my photos were used for two media. One was produced within a few hours after the event. The second was more polished and was produced over the next couple of weeks. Since I had both JPEG and raw, I was able to deliver my "rough" shots to the first producer right away. The second media producer got my "polished" shots later that week.

    --------

    To all photographers who don't yet shoot raw,

    If you decide to try raw, use RAW+JPEG. Your camera will store two files for every photo, a raw (ORF) file and a JPEG file. You'll have the JPEG for comparison and you can use the JPEG in place of the raw file if the JPEG is good enough---which it usually is for many kinds of shooting.
    Best regards, FL

    Pursuing excellence...

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Staffordshire
    Posts
    1,228
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnmcl7 View Post
    How do you find the difference in quality using this method compared to out of camera jpegs?

    John
    I've been shooting RAW for the last couple of weeks to re-evaluate it's usefulness with my E-510. Obviously it's easier to 'fix' WB and you can recover highlights to a certain extent but apart from that I really don't see any real advantage. I think we may be spoilt that Oly's jpegs are so good but I see nothing wrong with that

    FWIW I've been using UFRaw as my raw converter. I'm using the latest bleading-edge source + a patch of my own and it works quite well. I generally use it as a GIMP plug-in and it doesn't take much longer to load a raw file than it does a jpeg. For me, RAW is very much a 1% corner case scenario. Today I went back to jpeg. I wasn't struck down by lightning or attacked by giant crocodiles. The 'mossies' made a feast of me (again ) though
    Best wishes

    Paul

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    OK USA
    Posts
    735
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnmcl7 View Post
    How do you find the difference in quality using this method compared to out of camera jpegs?

    John
    Hi John,

    The jpegs developed from the "As Shot" settings in both Studio and Master are equal to each other, but the out of camera jpegs are ever so slightly superior (assuming SHQ) because it is impossible, as far as I know, to match the low compression ratio of the in camera jpegs with either Studio or Master. The difference is essentially imperceptible to me, but the file size of out of camera jpegs will generally be over 1 meg larger than either Studio or Master jpegs developed as shot. It's interesting to me that Studio or Master takes 10-15 seconds to develop a raw and the camera's firmware does it in less than 2.

    To others following this thread:*

    If you happen to find yourself in an unfortunate situation like Julie did, remember that you can develop jpegs in camera from your raw files after the fact, and they will equal or exceed the quality of either Studio or Master (assuming no edits). Parameters that can be controlled and tweaked in camera are white balance, saturation, contrast, sharpening, picture mode and image quality. Unfortunately there is no way to recover from a poor exposure in camera. You simply set your camera parameters to the development settings you want (or leave them as shot) and select your raw and hit OK. It's a bit tedious to do a bunch, but it does work and works faster than Studio or Master.

    Fred

    Edit: The statements above are in reference to the out of camera jpegs of the E-510 (the OP's situation) and most probably are valid also for the E-410. The same can not be said for the E-1, E-300 and E-500 out of camera jpegs vs. Studio developed jpegs (high function with Studio 1 or Noise Filter Off with Studio 2). I don't own and can't comment on the E-330 or E-410 in camera jpegs.

    Sorry for any confusion,

    Fred

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Phoenix Arizona
    Posts
    1,566
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    I'm sorry to hear about your frustration Julie. As we all know and/or have read, the new versions of Oly's software are the pits. If Oly doesn't act on this quickly it will take years to recover, if at all.

    I too am going through the same agony of a new camera body with little to none aftermarket support for the raw files. I knew it was going to require a change from Raw Shooter Essentials that I've used very successfully for my E300 but when it became a reality it was like my left arm had been cut off.

    From what I have seen with the 510 though, I personally wouldn't shoot it in anything but raw. I haven't liked anything the jpeg engine in that camera was able to do.

    At first it was muddy details so I turned off the noise filter. Then the photos were full of artifacts. I learned from reading that this was caused by the sledgehammer sharpening that the jpeg engine uses to overcome the noise filter smudging up the details. Remember, I am one of the crazies that likes to chase the birds around and feather detail is about as demanding as it can get.

    I read Phil's recommendations, and some from some other users both here and over there. I fiddled back and forth between natural, vivid, sharpening -1 and -2, noise filter at off and low. Nothing was turning out to my expectations. It was getting to the point that I was considering that I had a defective body. Fortunately, time has taught me that out of the 1,000 times I get a bad photo, only one time is the camera's fault and the rest of the time it is my problem.

    For now I will go to Bibble light after trying out it and some other options, Silypix and Raw Therapee. The price is not abhorrent to a hobbyist. Bibble gets the colors right and is fairly intuitive, for me anyway, to use. That and it has the fill light adjustment which is like crack to those of us who don't, and don't want to, understand adjusting tone curves.

    I'll miss some of the things from RSE, especially the full screen slideshow sorter for ranking. Bibble has a way to do that, it's different so it'll be a matter of me adjusting to it.

    As others have said, If you are getting what you want and expect from the jpegs, then your anguish will end. Shoot jpegs and be happy.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    25
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Just got the e-510 yesterday.
    Shot RAW+jpg (noise red off and shq natural setting)
    Developed in ACR 4.1 and also in Lightroom.

    Comparing the developed RAW images and the out of camera jpg's.

    ACR colors match the out of camera jpg's (skin tones especially) extremely well. MUCH better than ACR handled the Kodak CCD sensor RAW files of my E-1 and following Oly cameras.

    I tried deliberately using the "wrong" white balance to see what corrections are possible as well as sharpening. RAW in the latest ACR does it perfectly.

    NO WAY will I shoot jpg's. only. Lightroom is very fast from RAW file to print and the prints from my Epson 3800 match the on screen image VERY closely (using profiles I make myself)



    An aside remark I want to make is that my experience over the past 25 years with Adobe support here in Europe (I live in Holland) has been truly excellent. Updating, technical questions, switching from Win to Mac this year, all has been handled in a very competent, fair and above all very helpful and friendly way.

    Maurice

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    233
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Re: I am NEVER shooting raw again

    Quote Originally Posted by llpoolej View Post
    I have never seen a real advantage to raw, unless I really needed to recover highlights or low lights. If I exposed properly, not a difference.
    I'm sure you didn't intend it but one can infer from this statement that the additional dynamic range one can recover from a RAW file is only needed when the exposure is off. I'd like to make sure we're clear about this for the benefit of those who might be still trying to decide whether/when to shoot RAW. I haven't read the entire thread so someone else might have already done this. If so, please forgive me.

    There are many instances in which the dynamic range of the subject exceeds the dynamic range that will be captured by in-camera processing. In such a case, any choice of exposure settings will produce either blocked-up shadows or blown-out highlights or both in the in-camera JPEG (or TIFF). This might be fine. It depends on the photographer's objectives. Generally, I prefer to be able to recover detail in shadow and highlight areas and I believe it's worth the extra effort for the type of photography I'm doing.

    Shooting RAW does not obviate careful exposure.

Similar Threads

  1. B&W Shooting Tip
    By ckrueger in forum Site Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-16-2007, 09:27 PM
  2. When shooting RAW ............
    By 3dpan in forum Site Archive
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-16-2007, 06:03 AM
  3. When shooting tonight
    By ManeImpressions in forum Photos
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-07-2007, 04:53 PM
  4. Shooting SHQ vs. HQ
    By ditto1958 in forum Site Archive
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-01-2007, 10:26 PM
  5. Shooting into the Sun
    By Craftysnapper in forum Photos
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-12-2006, 07:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •