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Thread: TOP Ten cameras

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    Default TOP Ten cameras

    T.O.P has put up a list of their new camera recommendations, and it makes for interesting reading. Check it out here:

    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...ra-recomm.html

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    A nice find. While the E-510 was listed the reviewer didn't seem to be wild with enthusiasm. Big gaps in the 4/3 lens lineup?
    Good shooting,
    English Bob

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    I'd have to agree that if I was to tread the dSLR path today, I'd chose a Pentax K10d which, in comparison to Olympus, is becoming more and more economically favourable by the day.

    Cheers, Jens.
    Motto: Wildlife won't come to me unless I go to it.
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    My Wildlife Photos: jensbirch.smugmug.com

    E-5, E-3, E-510, IR-E-1 ,E-P2
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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Not bad lineup. I was surprised to see Pentax as #1. But interesting opinion piece.
    As for "Big Gaps in lens lineup" - I guess that's the missing 70-300, and 14-35mm.

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    I thought a lot about a K10D when I was in the market for a camera, but made the "mistake" of trying a firesale E-1. As a result, Olympus gets all of my lens savings. I probably would have been happy with the Pentax too, but it's water under the bridge now.

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by tspore View Post
    As for "Big Gaps in lens lineup" - I guess that's the missing 70-300, and 14-35mm.
    ...and an affordable super wide-angle zoom.

    We know that these are coming and, I think the comment is a bit stupid because the current line-up actually allow 4/3 photographers more varied opportunities with fewer lenses than other systems.
    Taking into account the Sigma and Leica offerings and the 4/3 Lens Roadmap, it is just some speciality lenses that might be missing.

    Cheers, Jens.
    Motto: Wildlife won't come to me unless I go to it.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    My Wildlife Photos: jensbirch.smugmug.com

    E-5, E-3, E-510, IR-E-1 ,E-P2
    ZD: 7-14, 14-54, 50, 50-200 SWD, 90-250/2.8, 300/2.8, EC-14, EC-20
    Peleng 8mm fisheye, shift Tamron SP 17/3.5, Tokina AT-X 300/2.8
    FL-50R, FL-40, FL-20, HLD-2, HLD-4, cleaved ZD EX-25 w. electric bypass, 250D, 500D, KatzEye Plus OptiBrite
    Feisol CT-3472LV and CM-1471

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    I thought that the ranking of the K10D was interesting too. In a lot of ways it was the E-1 of its day. It's coming from an "other" manufacturer, weather-sealed, well built, and meant to be a pro-quality camera without challenging the C&N top pro offerings. If it had been the missing E-2, at that time and with those specs, I think a lot of people here would have been very happy. It's the camera I would have bought if I had come into the market at that time.

    It's worth noting also that Mike Johnston has had plenty of very nice things to say about the E-1 and the 4/3 lens lineup in the past. He did another subjective opinion article some time ago, but about lenses. His June 2005 article can still be found here. The highlights:

    Best Lens Available for DSLRs: Olympus Digital Zuiko 50mm ƒ/2 Macro
    Best Telephoto Zoom for DSLRs: Olympus 50-200mm Digital Zuiko
    Best Lens Line for Overall Optical Quality (tie): Olympus Digital Zuiko (for Four-Thirds System) Leica R (for 35mm SLR)

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    The list does make sense to me. I would also seriously consider the K10D is I bought anew today. But am happy as is, no regrets with the E-system.

    But there are still some gaps. Personally I'm missing a lighter and more pocket book friendly version of the 35-100. Maybe a 20-200mm f2.8-3.5. Not affording (and wanting to scare of potential already shy subjects) the 35-100mm f2.0 that certainly feels like one major gap.

    And then there's the crave for short and fast primes. Whether one really needs them or not is really irrelevant. If the consumer wants them, give 'em what they want. Right?
    Cheers, Mick
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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    He claims that you can use a lot of old MF lenses on the K10D (with a suitable adapter). Surely this is also the case with the E-510 and the 4/3rds to OM adapter?

    The modern Pentax lens range isn't that extensive, or cheap. But it does win hands down, on the prime lens front.
    _________

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    I hate to jump on the Pentax bandwagon, but I thought seriously about the K10D. I'd still keep my E-300 as only E-330 comes close to the look I want. If only Olympus would make a grip for the E-330.

    JW

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    Default Speaking of Pentax . . .

    Nice to see Pentax getting some recognition. I just bought a new *istD at a great price and a couple of inexpensive lenses, and I'm really enjoying it, especially with the FA 50mm 1.4. Small and well-made--an interesting camera. It has it's "quirks" that one must accept, and it's not going to replace my E-1 and E-330, but as a second system will compliment my Olympus gear nicely, particularly with primes.

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Idlebull View Post
    He claims that you can use a lot of old MF lenses on the K10D (with a suitable adapter). Surely this is also the case with the E-510 and the 4/3rds to OM adapter?

    The modern Pentax lens range isn't that extensive, or cheap. But it does win hands down, on the prime lens front.
    Well, I can buy a good second hand high quality MF 300/2.8 for 600 dollars and get IS with the K10D for another 700 bucks.

    How much would it cost to have IS to work with a 300 mm f/2.8 lens using the 4/3 system? Answer: 6300 dollars = Too much!

    Cheers, Jens.
    Motto: Wildlife won't come to me unless I go to it.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    My Wildlife Photos: jensbirch.smugmug.com

    E-5, E-3, E-510, IR-E-1 ,E-P2
    ZD: 7-14, 14-54, 50, 50-200 SWD, 90-250/2.8, 300/2.8, EC-14, EC-20
    Peleng 8mm fisheye, shift Tamron SP 17/3.5, Tokina AT-X 300/2.8
    FL-50R, FL-40, FL-20, HLD-2, HLD-4, cleaved ZD EX-25 w. electric bypass, 250D, 500D, KatzEye Plus OptiBrite
    Feisol CT-3472LV and CM-1471

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    I thought the list might be interesting until I realized he was recommending gear he hadn't even used. Hell, anybody can wave their hands and say something is great. Pfah.

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by tspore View Post
    Not bad lineup. I was surprised to see Pentax as #1. But interesting opinion piece.
    As for "Big Gaps in lens lineup" - I guess that's the missing 70-300, and 14-35mm.
    I just arrived in Tokyo Sunday, picked up a E-510 brochure yesterday from Yodobashi in Shinjuku. This lists the 70-300 as available this month in Japan but no price. Plenty of pictures in the brochure taken with it.

    Minimum focus is 0.96 meters MF and 1.2 meters AF, size 80 by 127mm and weight 620 gms.

    No news on the other lenses apart from what we already know.

    Off topic, plenty of canon 40D's in the stores but zero D3 or D300's either at Yodobashi or Bic Camera in Yurakucho. The E-3 may indeed hit the shelves before the Nikons.

    Peter

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    because the Pentax is not selling . Peter that 70-300mm do we know the min f stop? sorry it may be a bunny question. Pete
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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Pete:

    The min f-stop is 22. It has 14 elements in 10 groups, 9 blade aperture 58mm filter.

    I did find the price: Yen 49875 list, tax included (Yen 47,500 without the japanese consumption tax).

    Peter

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by jebir View Post
    ...and an affordable super wide-angle zoom.

    We know that these are coming and, I think the comment is a bit stupid because the current line-up actually allow 4/3 photographers more varied opportunities with fewer lenses than other systems.
    Taking into account the Sigma and Leica offerings and the 4/3 Lens Roadmap, it is just some speciality lenses that might be missing.

    Cheers, Jens.
    Jens,

    I am actually surprised that you would go this way. I had the impression that Pentax lens offering is not that great. That is if you don't care for primes and are rather looking for inexpensive quality zooms made for digital (I am not interested in old MF only lenses).

    I guess you do like MF lenses and primes specifically so really it depends what you shoot.

    Regards

    Marek

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Jones View Post
    I thought the list might be interesting until I realized he was recommending gear he hadn't even used. Hell, anybody can wave their hands and say something is great. Pfah.
    Yeah, I was quite surprised that a site of such taste would go into T.O.P. 10 cameras territory. I know that the other guys who writes articles there sometimes (he goes by Ctein name) is a die hard Pentax K10d guy. Mike on the other hand is and IS lover, so I guess he couldn't object that camera either.

    Anyways, I don't find much value in posting such a list in the first place.


    Cheers

    Marek

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Hi Marek,

    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    I am actually surprised that you would go this way.
    I'm not sure which "way" you mean really - Pentax or Manual focus? (The quoted post gives little hint.)

    Anyhow, it might seem to many of you that I'm a perfectionist regarding image quality. However, in many cases it is possible get as good image quality with a MF lens as a ZD lens and in other cases the image quality can be 'good enough' if the lens have other assets (like small size or large aperture) or the keepers rate is sometimes considerably higher when shooting MF than AF. Also, I am very practical and I do not have unlimited monetary resources (believe it or not).

    So, as you suspected, the reason for looking at Pentax is the MF lens compatibility. I have had very good experience in wildlife photography with a MF Tokina AT-X 300/2.8 on the E-1. That lens gives me a higher keepers rate than any 4/3 lens for moving wildlife and the image quality is stellar and compares very well to the ZD 90-250.

    However, in order to take advantage of IS using that type of wildlife lens, I would have two choices: Either get the ZD 300 or ZD 90-250 plus an E-510 for at least US$ 5.500 (add $ 1.000 for weather proofing when the E-3 is released) or go for Pentax. Since I am comfortable with shooting with MF lenses (no problems in rain/snow BTW), I could get a very nice stable of well performing Pentax AF lenses along with a PK mount Tokina AT-X 300/2.8 and a K10D body for an amount of money much less than I would have to spend in the 4/3 system.

    Now, I already have a great deal of 4/3 gear which I, in general, am very happy with. Therefore, I have managed to scrape the bottom of the treasure chest and got the E-510+ZD 90-250 to see how they fare for me. My first impressions of this lens/body combination is that the results does not justify the cost.

    Cheers, Jens.
    Motto: Wildlife won't come to me unless I go to it.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    My Wildlife Photos: jensbirch.smugmug.com

    E-5, E-3, E-510, IR-E-1 ,E-P2
    ZD: 7-14, 14-54, 50, 50-200 SWD, 90-250/2.8, 300/2.8, EC-14, EC-20
    Peleng 8mm fisheye, shift Tamron SP 17/3.5, Tokina AT-X 300/2.8
    FL-50R, FL-40, FL-20, HLD-2, HLD-4, cleaved ZD EX-25 w. electric bypass, 250D, 500D, KatzEye Plus OptiBrite
    Feisol CT-3472LV and CM-1471

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by jebir View Post
    Now, I already have a great deal of 4/3 gear which I, in general, am very happy with. Therefore, I have managed to scrape the bottom of the treasure chest and got the E-510+ZD 90-250 to see how they fare for me. My first impressions of this lens/body combination is that the results does not justify the cost.
    Verrrry interesting, Jens. Do you think the body or the lens is falling short? Or do you think the whole package is just too expensive for what it does?

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Hi Kyle,

    it is entirely the high price vs. the incrimental improvement that makes me a bit disappointed.

    The image quality of the ZD 90-250 appears to be on par with my Tokina AT-X 300/2.8 lens - I haven't made any side-by-side tests yet but I can't fail any of them really.
    It seems like I get a higher keepers rate with the 90-250 mm when the subjects are stationary (or close to stationary) while the manual focus 300 mm is easier to focus on moving subjects like birds in flight.

    The E-510 is a fine camera but the feature that I mainly bought it for - Image Stabilization - does not work as effectively as I'd hoped. I think it is because I already have a pretty good technique with these heavy lenses (I use a monopod just slightly extended with its bottom end supported in a leather pouch hanging in my belt). Of course the E-510 have many improvements over my E-1s but I haven't tried the Pentax K10D enough to compare it with that body. On paper, they seem to be pretty much on par. I'm not worried about the Pentax not giving so bright colours as many reviewers mention because I always tweak the colours anyway before presenting my work - even when shooting the E-1.

    The ZD 90-250 being an AF zoom of course gives it a huge advantage for many applications and photographers but it is then up to each photographer to make up his mind wether it is worth a 5-10 times higher price than a high quality MF prime.

    As I wrote earlier, these are first impressions and the real test is just ahead of me now since winter is coming and light levels are soon becoming very low. Maybe I will find the small advantage that the AF and IS gives more valuable then than until now when the light has been decent. We will see...


    Cheers, Jens.
    Motto: Wildlife won't come to me unless I go to it.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    My Wildlife Photos: jensbirch.smugmug.com

    E-5, E-3, E-510, IR-E-1 ,E-P2
    ZD: 7-14, 14-54, 50, 50-200 SWD, 90-250/2.8, 300/2.8, EC-14, EC-20
    Peleng 8mm fisheye, shift Tamron SP 17/3.5, Tokina AT-X 300/2.8
    FL-50R, FL-40, FL-20, HLD-2, HLD-4, cleaved ZD EX-25 w. electric bypass, 250D, 500D, KatzEye Plus OptiBrite
    Feisol CT-3472LV and CM-1471

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Hi Jens

    I'm surprised that you're getting a higher keeper rate using a MF lens than with an AF lens for flight shots
    Best wishes

    Paul

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Hi Jens,

    yes I meant both .... Pentax and MF.

    After I read the bits and details of your further explanation I am surprised that your keeper rate with MF lenses is higher. I absolutely have no chance of shooting wildlife so I cannot make any references to my own experience. But I don't doubt your effort for one second.

    Surely, if ZD will deliver, but at much higher price one has to do what's necessary to satisfy his needs.


    Thanks for explaining your thoughts.

    Regards

    Marek

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    Hi Marek and Paul,

    the C-AF of all longer ZD that I have (40-150, 50-200, and 90-250, are too slow or too sluggish if light is not perfect - also with the E-510. Moreover, their focus-by-wire system removes all kind of feeling from the focusing and makes their MF more or less useless for so called 'follow-focus' of moving subjects.

    My 300 mm f/2.8 MF lens with Katz Eye Optics focusing screen in the E-1 plus a couple of outings practice on follow-focus gives much more keepers than the ZD lenses - at least for birds in flight at low light.

    Cheers, Jens.
    Motto: Wildlife won't come to me unless I go to it.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    My Wildlife Photos: jensbirch.smugmug.com

    E-5, E-3, E-510, IR-E-1 ,E-P2
    ZD: 7-14, 14-54, 50, 50-200 SWD, 90-250/2.8, 300/2.8, EC-14, EC-20
    Peleng 8mm fisheye, shift Tamron SP 17/3.5, Tokina AT-X 300/2.8
    FL-50R, FL-40, FL-20, HLD-2, HLD-4, cleaved ZD EX-25 w. electric bypass, 250D, 500D, KatzEye Plus OptiBrite
    Feisol CT-3472LV and CM-1471

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    Default Re: TOP Ten cameras

    That makes for some interesting reading. When I'm done with my studies, and hopefully start making some money, I am thinking of buying that little gem, the E510.

    But I do have to say that I don't agree totally on the noise issue, it's still more noisy than let's say the EOS 400D. Make no mistake, I prefer the E510 (and my E400 for that sake) to the EOS 400D, but it's still better on noise.

    Totally agree on them with the D80 although, I know a couple of people with D80s, and that body impresses me every single time. The only thing keeping me from hitting an old friend of my dad in the back of the head with a heavy piece of wood is my sense of fairness, I don't like clubbing people in the back of the head. Awsome camera.

    Nice read.
    Olympus E-3 Olympus E400, Oly 14-54, Oly 50-200, PanaLeica 25, 25 Pancake, Oly 14-42, FL-36, FL-50R, Metz AF44, softbox and diffusers, OM-2, OM 28/2, OM 50/1.8, OM 100/2, Vivitar 285, Velbon VEB-3 Tripod
    If your photos aren't good enough - you're not close enough (Robert Capa, who stepped on a landmine and died getting close enough)
    Freelance photographer/journalist and columnist.

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