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Thread: HLD-4 questions

  1. #51
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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by windsprite View Post
    Since this never happened with the first body, it has me wondering about both Gareth's theory that it's an E-3 design flaw, and Tony's theory that it's a grip issue.
    Well Tony's theory would be a reasonable one if we assumed that the grip was merely an external receptacle for a battery with no affect on the current or voltage (leaving aside any iffy contacts). However this isn't the case. The grip has diodes in line with the supply, and its very possible (probable?) that its this that's causing the problem, and swapping grips therefore isn't going to make any difference unless oly can provide a replacement that doesn't have as much voltage drop, which isn't going to happen if the diodes are to spec and they can't find another way to implement the protection mechanism.

    Julie - What is interesting is that your two E3 cameras seem to be different in their tolerance to this lower voltage though. I'm having a hard time to accept that there would be that much variation in the electronics compared to how much safety margin oly would have built in. Hmmm... but then the mechanics could have more variation .. and you say its the mirror locking up that causes the problem..... hmmm.... what's one of the major differences in the E3 to the other cameras .... 5fps .... stronger (read needs more current) mirror and shutter recocking mechanism?

    Of course it could be something much simpler like some oxidisation or residue on the grip contacts in the body ?!? but I have a nasty feeling its not that simple :-(

  2. #52
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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    True, having one good battery would make a difference. It didn't in my case. After a shutdown, I tried swapping batteries but it didn't help. Then I tried using two batteries and in the grip and it has worked so far. No freezies at all.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by OMforLife View Post
    In my case at least, having two batteries in the grip seemed to have solved the problem.
    That's a possibility in my case, too. With my first body, I was sure I had used it with both one battery and two, but it was mostly two. With the new body, I've only been using one battery. I'll give it a try, thanks.

    Even if that "solves" the problem, I still want it fixed, because if there is no power advantage to having two batteries in the grip, what's the point in carrying around the added weight? The E-3 is already a brick, as FourThirds cameras go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ga
    Julie - What is interesting is that your two E3 cameras seem to be different in their tolerance to this lower voltage though.
    Gareth, see above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ga
    Hmmm... but then the mechanics could have more variation .. and you say its the mirror locking up that causes the problem..... hmmm....
    I didn't say the mirror lockup causes the problem; I don't have the technical knowledge to make that judgment. I do know it accompanies the problem. At the same time the mirror freezes, the power seems to cut out completely until I switch the camera off and back on again.

    Unless I'm mistaken, the freeze only occurs when I press the shutter button. It doesn't happen while I'm performing other actions that might drain the battery somewhat, like tracking an object with C-AF. I don't use live view much, so I don't know if that would cause a freeze or not.

    Edit: Am I the only one who loses all their current camera settings when this happens? It sounds like Tony can just switch his camera back on and go. I have to spend a minute resetting everything, thus losing whatever images I could have been taking during that time.


  4. #54
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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Julie, good morning.

    While the grip with single battery and a bad diode, current flow to the camera was restricted to a wrong level, so when you press shutter (AF, IS, mirror up and shutter working, in body calculation for many settings) consumes more power but the grip don't let go, so it freezes like you pull out the battery .......

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Johannes View Post
    While the grip with single battery and a bad diode, current flow to the camera was restricted to a wrong level, so when you press shutter (AF, IS, mirror up and shutter working, in body calculation for many settings) consumes more power but the grip don't let go, so it freezes like you pull out the battery .......
    If it is indeed a 'bad diode' in terms of an out of spec component or a poor joint, then there is indeed hope that sending the grip in for a 'repair' would be something that could work.

    On the other hand, it could simply be a case of the reduced power capability of one battery driving though a functional diode is just not quite enough to satisfy the brief but high power requirements of the E3 as Johannes has just described, but two batteries, driving through two separate diodes effectively in parallel are now able to stop the E3 from locking up. Its still a voltage problem with the E3, but if sticking two batteries in makes it work, so be it.
    I'd have to think about this, but what would concern me is that while two fresh batteries could very well work at the start, it might be possible that as they deplete, people like Julie might still get the lockup problem at the end of the shoot. Its a suck it and see thing. I'm surprised that we're dealing with such tight tolerances though :-(

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Hi Johannes,

    Got your grip back?

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by say123 View Post
    Hi Johannes,

    Got your grip back?
    Not yet .....
    But they are doing some intensive test with my grip.

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    The 'intensive' test is:

    first they put two fresh charged batteries in the grip, keep shootong with IS on and SWD lens (most power consuming) and test it every few hours with camera on and off until it shows red icon and till it shut down with 'empty battery, then record the count of both red icon and empty battery (within same day),
    then they will do the test again with only one battery in the grip,

    they did measured the loaded voltage drop of the grip and record all figures,

    If it cannot pass the factory standard (610 shoots per battery, 1,100 shoots with 2 batteries, yes 1,100, which is approx. 90% of 610 x 2 because of the diodes) Olympus will replace the circuit board of the grip for me (need to order from Olympus, no stock at the moment).

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    thanks of the update Johannes.

    another question, so they are did no mods/repairs prior to the testing method you mentioned?

    so i guess most likely they would have to replace the circuit board?

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by say123 View Post
    thanks of the update Johannes.

    another question, so they are did no mods/repairs prior to the testing method you mentioned?

    so i guess most likely they would have to replace the circuit board?
    Sorry, I don't have an answer, but you might want to know that Johannes has left on a trip and won't be back until next week, unless he has internet access.


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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    thanks julie for your info!

    I am sure he will check this forum soon.

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    upz!!

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by windsprite View Post
    Sorry, I don't have an answer, but you might want to know that Johannes has left on a trip and won't be back until next week, unless he has internet access.
    Internet access on the boat is expensive $5 Taiwan dollar per minute, I only online for a short while to check the weather in Hongkong while returning from Naha to Taiwan.

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by say123 View Post
    upz!!
    Hey ~~

    Not yet know the result as I am pretty busy at work after the vacation, will let you know later, OK ?

  15. #65
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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Update: Olympus service will replace the whole circuit board of the grip for me, parts has to order from Japan.

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Johannes View Post
    Update: Olympus service will replace the whole circuit board of the grip for me, parts has to order from Japan.
    Hi Johannes,
    Thanks for sharing!

    It seems that Olympus could not do some simple repair and need to replace the whole circuit board.

    Did they mention what is the source of the malfunction? Diode?
    Will Olympus make any official announcement?

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    Default DIY swap with low forward voltage schottky diodes

    This should be a simple DIY fix. Just swap for a set of low forward voltage schottky diodes, with typically VF=0.30V - 0.35V. The max voltage rating of 15V will do fine for those. But the current rating needs to be checked with the ones originally used. I guess 5A or even 3A will do fine. I think there is also a Varistor in series with the load.

    I wonder what properties the existing diodes have, are they of Schottky type at all?

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by say123 View Post
    Hi Johannes,
    Thanks for sharing!

    It seems that Olympus could not do some simple repair and need to replace the whole circuit board.

    Did they mention what is the source of the malfunction? Diode?
    Will Olympus make any official announcement?
    Pull out few plugs and replace the whole board is more simple, welding a new component might be risky (overheat).

    They didn't mention anything at the moment.

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    i wonder how long will it take for olympus to make the announcement?

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    The circuit board of the grip arrived, they are still doing intensive check on the old board at the grip, they are really serious to count the number of shots. After they count it few times. they will replace the board for me.

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ga View Post
    If it is indeed a 'bad diode' in terms of an out of spec component or a poor joint, then there is indeed hope that sending the grip in for a 'repair' would be something that could work.

    On the other hand, it could simply be a case of the reduced power capability of one battery driving though a functional diode is just not quite enough to satisfy the brief but high power requirements of the E3 as Johannes has just described, but two batteries, driving through two separate diodes effectively in parallel are now able to stop the E3 from locking up. Its still a voltage problem with the E3, but if sticking two batteries in makes it work, so be it.
    I'd have to think about this, but what would concern me is that while two fresh batteries could very well work at the start, it might be possible that as they deplete, people like Julie might still get the lockup problem at the end of the shoot. Its a suck it and see thing. I'm surprised that we're dealing with such tight tolerances though :-(
    I'm a bit befuddled. Not a total ignoramus on electricity, but neither the high flyer you guys necessitate. If the camera works poorly on one battery using the grip; why not the one battery used with*out* the grip? (maybe that wayward diode???)

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Leonard, you are absolutely correct, No doubt.

    But, the point is, if we bought a product, "it should work as it supposed to work, and they are responsible", this sentence is not by me, is by the Olympus service manager Hongkong. So they seriously looking into this matter and trust the report from the user.

    Some user want to use the grip for portrait and use one battery which is lighter but it freeze up even faster.

    That said, even if I never listen to radio or CD when driving, a car supplier cannot give me a faulty stereo when they hand the car to me, right?

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Johannes View Post
    Pull out few plugs and replace the whole board is more simple, welding a new component might be risky (overheat).

    They didn't mention anything at the moment.
    Boards are FRU's, that's short for Field Replaceable Units. Its not only simpler but also faster. If this is company policy than they have to do so. Probably they have to sent the faulty board to Olympus research for further investigation for finding out if it is just this board or if it is the complete series or even the complete production. If they know that, then you will see a message that owners have to go to an Olympus service center. But if this means a complete production fault, then its more possible that they going to produce a new batch and just swap the grip, new for old. This saves losts of labour cost, remember, the grip is cheaper for Olympus then what they are listed for in the pricelist. I'm sure they are not amused with this problem because they gave those grips away for free in Europe.
    Joop

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Quote Originally Posted by lendur2 View Post
    I'm a bit befuddled. Not a total ignoramus on electricity, but neither the high flyer you guys necessitate. If the camera works poorly on one battery using the grip; why not the one battery used with*out* the grip? (maybe that wayward diode???)
    I'm not absolutely certain I know what you're asking here. But at the risk or repeating what's been said before, when you power something through a diode, the diode will cause a slight voltage drop, therefore while a particular BLM1 might work ok directly in the camera, but when you stick the same battery in the grip, its going through a diode and therefore the camera now sees a lower voltage and might (and in this case often does) report a dead battery sooner than it should, and/or the reduced voltage is now actually below the design spec of something in the camera thus it can cause a malfunction.
    Note - the diode doesn't have to be 'wayward' to do this, ALL diodes do it. The question is - is it something in the grip that can be replaced to somehow reduce this voltage drop, or is it that the design requirements of the E3 is so tight on tolerances that ANY sort of voltage drop is going to give problems to a greater or lesser degree. I'm afraid I'm tending to think its the latter in this case, although I hope I'm wrong.

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    Default Re: HLD-4 questions

    Update:

    circuit board replaced, they tested it (before and after), now it gain approx. 10% more shots, and no mirror freeze up when only 1 battery at the grip.

    I will pick it up from Olympus service tomorrow.

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