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Thread: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

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    Question 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    I would rather not invest in the current 12-60. It is rather large for the micro 4/3 system and I prefer not to adapt the current 12-60 to a micro 4/3 body which slows down the af. I was wondering if anyone knew what the chances are that Oly or Pany might develop something like a 12-60 (10-50 would also be great) for the micro 4/3 system?

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by digitalphotonut View Post
    I would rather not invest in the current 12-60. It is rather large for the micro 4/3 system and I prefer not to adapt the current 12-60 to a micro 4/3 body which slows down the af. I was wondering if anyone knew what the chances are that Oly or Pany might develop something like a 12-60 (10-50 would also be great) for the micro 4/3 system?
    I'd say good but not great. I suspect the primary market for the m43 lenses will be small primes and compact-but-slow zooms, I don't expect to see any faster zooms in the near future, especially wide-range ones.

    An aside, but the 14-54 II handles surprisingly well on the G1.

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by mawz View Post
    I'd say good but not great. I suspect the primary market for the m43 lenses will be small primes and compact-but-slow zooms, I don't expect to see any faster zooms in the near future, especially wide-range ones.

    An aside, but the 14-54 II handles surprisingly well on the G1.
    Mawz, Olympus did say that next year they will be releasing a wide angle zoom and a high-mag zoom, so i am willing to say that the 12-60 is in the pipeline *crosses fingers*

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by seaotter View Post
    Mawz, Olympus did say that next year they will be releasing a wide angle zoom and a high-mag zoom, so i am willing to say that the 12-60 is in the pipeline *crosses fingers*
    More likely that means a 9-18 variant and a 40-150 variant. or better yet an 11-22 equivalent rather than a 9-18. A 12-60 is neither a wide-angle zoom or a high-mag zoom but rather fits in between.
    G1, E-30, G-Vario 14-45 f3.5-5.6 Asph, M.Zuiko 17/2.8, ZD 14-54 f2.8-3.5 II, ZD ED 40-150 f4-5.6, ZD ED 70-300 f4-5.6, DMW-MA1.

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by mawz View Post
    More likely that means a 9-18 variant and a 40-150 variant. or better yet an 11-22 equivalent rather than a 9-18. A 12-60 is neither a wide-angle zoom or a high-mag zoom but rather fits in between.

    The 12-60, 14-54, and 14-35 are often referred to as standard zooms.
    Regards,
    J A P

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Why not just buy the Panasonic m4/3 14-45 and 45-200? The image quality is excellent.

    Steve

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by digitalphotonut View Post
    I would rather not invest in the current 12-60. It is rather large for the micro 4/3 system and I prefer not to adapt the current 12-60 to a micro 4/3 body which slows down the af. I was wondering if anyone knew what the chances are that Oly or Pany might develop something like a 12-60 (10-50 would also be great) for the micro 4/3 system?
    Not to burst your bubble, but the 12-60mm was an engineering and manufacturing miracle. There has never been a 24mm equivalent zoom with nearly as much range as the 12-60mm in the history of lense manufacturing - especially starting at f/2.8. When Olympus announced the 12-60mm along with the E-3, there were zero proponents of a 5X zoom achieving similar image quality as the 14-54mm f/2.8-f/3.5. We all were excited, but we all expected compromises. In the end, the compromises we "had" to settle with were so small that for many of us they were negligible.

    The next closest lense is the Canon 24-105mm f/4, and it doesn't compare to the 12-60mm.

    Asking for a 10-50mm is ridiculous - there has never been anything remotely close to that focal length and range across any mount - ever. And asking for a quality lense too? No.

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by Timskis6 View Post
    Not to burst your bubble, but the 12-60mm was an engineering and manufacturing miracle. There has never been a 24mm equivalent zoom with nearly as much range as the 12-60mm in the history of lense manufacturing - especially starting at f/2.8. When Olympus announced the 12-60mm along with the E-3, there were zero proponents of a 5X zoom achieving similar image quality as the 14-54mm f/2.8-f/3.5. We all were excited, but we all expected compromises. In the end, the compromises we "had" to settle with were so small that for many of us they were negligible.
    Apart from the Sony/Zeiss ZA 16-80, the Sony 16-105, Minolta 24-105, the Tamron 24-135, the two Nikon 24-120's, the Nikon 16-85VR, the Canon 24-105L and probably a couple I'm missing. Some of these predate the 12-60 by over a decade.

    The next closest lense is the Canon 24-105mm f/4, and it doesn't compare to the 12-60mm.

    Asking for a 10-50mm is ridiculous - there has never been anything remotely close to that focal length and range across any mount - ever. And asking for a quality lense too? No.
    The ZA 16-80 and Nikkor 16-85VR do compare however, as does a good copy of the 24-105L (which suffers from Canon's sample variation problems, a good copy will compare well with the 12-60, a poor copy won't even be close and it's a crapshoot as to which you get). The only thing truly unusual about the 12-60 is the fast aperture for a lens of that range. But note the physical aperture of the ZA16-80 and 16-85VR is essentially identical to the 12-60's (f3.5 at 16mm is slightly smaller than f2.8 at 12mm, f4 at 60mm is essentially identical to f5.6 at 85mm). Real-world, the fast AF of the 12-60 is its real advantage over other similar range zooms which typically have merely average AF performance.

    As to the 10-50, such zooms do exist in the video/film world. They don't yet in the still world but I would not be shocked to see something along those lines for m43 at some point. That said, I'd rather a 10-30 or smaller range zoom for reduced size/weight.
    Last edited by mawz; 09-27-2009 at 06:46 AM.
    G1, E-30, G-Vario 14-45 f3.5-5.6 Asph, M.Zuiko 17/2.8, ZD 14-54 f2.8-3.5 II, ZD ED 40-150 f4-5.6, ZD ED 70-300 f4-5.6, DMW-MA1.

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by jap View Post

    The 12-60, 14-54, and 14-35 are often referred to as standard zooms.
    Or normal zooms, I'm aware of the terminolgoy, but was referring specifically to why a 12-60 would not be either a wide-angle or a high-mag zoom.
    G1, E-30, G-Vario 14-45 f3.5-5.6 Asph, M.Zuiko 17/2.8, ZD 14-54 f2.8-3.5 II, ZD ED 40-150 f4-5.6, ZD ED 70-300 f4-5.6, DMW-MA1.

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    I don't think anything like the 12-60 4/3 lens will appear in the m4/3 mount from Olympus. I think Olympus treat the m4/3 as a small size advantage camera and will focus the big, high quality image quality to the 4/3 system. Just to avoid competition with each other. While I think Panasonic treat their m4/3 system as everything they have, so they will make big size thing for the high quality result. So, I will expect Panasonic to release better high quality lens for m4/3 than Olympus. And I will expect Olympus to continue release extremely small size lens for its M4/3. Just guessing though. ..
    Bodies: E3, E510, E410

    Lenses: 9-18mm F4.0-5.6, 35mm F3.5 Macro, 70-300mm F4.0-5.6, 12-60mm F2.8 SWD, 50mm F2.0 Macro, 50-200mm SWD, 14-42mm, 40 -150mm.

    Others: FL-36R, FL-50R, HLD-4, EC-14, EC-20, Flash Extender

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by mawz View Post
    Or normal zooms, I'm aware of the terminolgoy, but was referring specifically to why a 12-60 would not be either a wide-angle or a high-mag zoom.
    As far as zooms go, I would much prefer to see mFT versions of the 14-35/2 and the 35-100/2. A ZD version of the 7-14/4 would be nice too. However, I would prefer a lot more primes, especially WA and standard primes.
    Regards,
    J A P

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by jap View Post
    A ZD version of the 7-14/4 would be nice too.
    Why? The Lumix one is already excellent. I'd say that the last thing micro-4/3 needs right now is Olympus and Panasonic duplicating lenses.

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by bg2b View Post
    Why? The Lumix one is already excellent. I'd say that the last thing micro-4/3 needs right now is Olympus and Panasonic duplicating lenses.

    For one thing, Panasonic tends to leave IS functionality off their lenses. This feature tends to be more valuable for teles than for WA's, but, nevertheless, it can be an issue. Furthermore, I doubt the Panasonic mFT 7-14 was designed with a greater cost-is-no-object mentality to maximize performance than the ZD FT 7-14.
    Regards,
    J A P

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by Timskis6 View Post
    Not to burst your bubble, but the 12-60mm was an engineering and manufacturing miracle. There has never been a 24mm equivalent zoom with nearly as much range as the 12-60mm in the history of lense manufacturing - especially starting at f/2.8. When Olympus announced the 12-60mm along with the E-3, there were zero proponents of a 5X zoom achieving similar image quality as the 14-54mm f/2.8-f/3.5....

    Asking for a 10-50mm is ridiculous - there has never been anything remotely close to that focal length and range across any mount - ever. And asking for a quality lense too?
    Asking for a 10-50 HG probably is ridiculous.. but then, Olympus did do the 12-60 quite unexpectedly well, as you pointed out...

    A couple of other considerations to consider in relation to this :

    - At the time of the 12-60, Olympus had not yet developed the dual surface aspherical lens element used to good effect in lenses since

    - 4/3 is a lot easier to develop wide angles for than 4/3 given the shorter back focal length

    I'm not saying this is a lens that is likely to come out. Even something like a 10-30 HG would be a great lens as a wide option. But it's not as far out as might be imagined.

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by jap View Post

    For one thing, Panasonic tends to leave IS functionality off their lenses. This feature tends to be more valuable for teles than for WA's, but, nevertheless, it can be an issue. Furthermore, I doubt the Panasonic mFT 7-14 was designed with a greater cost-is-no-object mentality to maximize performance than the ZD FT 7-14.
    Mind you, Olympus don't put IS functionality in any of their lenses, so Panasonic leaving it off really doesn't hurt..

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Panasonic duplicate 4/3 lenses for micro 4/3 to boost the strength of their micro 4/3 system, also the new 45mm macro, I don't think Olympus will produce micro 4/3 lenses as fast as Panasonic because they need to take care of 4/3 group.

    Imagine what lens will be announced with the next 4/3 flagship? could be a 10-40mm or something similar ......

    And I always have a feeling that micro 4/3 is a system which makes most legacy lenses reborn and digitalizes.

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    Default Re: 12-60 dedicated for micro 4/3

    Quote Originally Posted by jap View Post

    Furthermore, I doubt the Panasonic mFT 7-14 was designed with a greater cost-is-no-object mentality to maximize performance than the ZD FT 7-14.
    Given how people already complain about the cost of the Lumix, I'm not sure that making one that's even more expensive would be beneficial. And as for the performance, I've found the Lumix to be very slightly better than the existing ZD in the center and very slightly worse in the corners, but really, it's basically a wash: both are great.

    The ZD is of course built like a tank, but it weighs as much as a tank too. Picking up the Lumix after having experienced the ZD, it's just shocking how small and light it is. Add in the excellent optical performance (software-corrected though it may be), and I personally think it's a far more useful lens, just because you're much more likely to have it with you.

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