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Thread: Maybe I am missing something...

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    Default Maybe I am missing something...

    I am a new Olympus user, so please be nice...

    I use a flash in the house a lot. I have 2 small kids that I am always chasing around, so slow shutters are not good. I am a recent convert from Canon, and I used, over the years, many bodies, and I used a third party flash as well as a 430EX II... Fast forward to today... I have an E-3 and a 12-60 SWD lens and I picked up a used FL-36R flash. My problem is that as the flash, when it is on the camera, gives me a dark area at the bottom of the image. The built in flash only barely shows a shadow of the lens, but I don't think the FL-36R is casting a shadow on the lens... It's almost like the lower part of the flash is not firing. I anyone has any input, please let me know... Thanks...

    First image is with the built in flash... The second is with the FL-36R on camera. Just a blank wall about 5 feet away...



    My name is Mike.
    Olympus E-3 ~ Zuiko 12-60 SWD FOR SALE
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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    Looks like the lens hood to me...may want to try without the hood and see if it gets better...

    I shoot with the FL36 with my 9-18 and hood and don't have a problem, but it is a small lens....

    Other than that have not noticed any issues on my end....

    Jim
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs. - Ansel Adams


    E-5, E-30, E-500, - Oly 150 F-2, Oly 9-18, 50 Macro, 40-150, 50-200 non-SWD, Oly 70-300, and 14-54, EC-14, EC-20, FL-36R, Bower SFD9260 TTL Flash, Cokin Pro Z Filter System, Oh, and more than likely, more on the way!!!

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    Default FL-36 flash illumination at wide angle

    At 12 mm the lens may exceed the width of the flash beam. And at close range the lens hood will often cast a shadow from the flash on the bottom of the photo, especially if you're shooting over a close, receding surface like a table top or close to the ground.

    I like to use the flash on a bracket, getting it away from the lens. You'll need the Oly FL-BK01 flash bracket or the Oly FL-CB01 flash cable and a generic bracket. The Canon flash cable also works. I prefer the Oly bracket for eliminating the floppy cable base below the flash shoe. I also use a bounce card over the head. I have a Lumiquest large-size solid bounce card. It spreads the light even farther.
    Dave in So Cal

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by mguffin View Post
    I am a new Olympus user, so please be nice...

    I use a flash in the house a lot. I have 2 small kids that I am always chasing around, so slow shutters are not good. I am a recent convert from Canon, and I used, over the years, many bodies, and I used a third party flash as well as a 430EX II... Fast forward to today... I have an E-3 and a 12-60 SWD lens and I picked up a used FL-36R flash. My problem is that as the flash, when it is on the camera, gives me a dark area at the bottom of the image. The built in flash only barely shows a shadow of the lens, but I don't think the FL-36R is casting a shadow on the lens... It's almost like the lower part of the flash is not firing. I anyone has any input, please let me know... Thanks...
    What you are probably seeing is the shadow from the shutter curtain closing, because you are exceeding your max sync speed for the flash. Ensure that you keep your shutter under (slower than) 1/250s on the E-3 unless you are using FP mode (High Speed Sync).
    Olympus E-3 | Olympus E-PL2 PEN | Olympus E-PM1 PEN | Zuiko ED 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 SWD | Zuiko 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 | Vivitar 100mm f/2.8 Macro | Carl Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2.8 | Konica Hexanon 50mm f/1.4 | Konica Hexanon 85mm f/1.8 | G.Zuiko 50mm f/1.4 | Zuiko 35mm f/3.5 Macro | Zuiko 25mm f/2.8 | KMZ Jupiter-3 50mm f/1.5 | E.Zuiko 200mm f/4 | Zuiko 75-150mm f/4 | Olympus EC-14 teleconverter | VF-2 and VF-3 Viewfinders | EMA-1 Mic Adapter | Olympus FL-36R and FL-50R speedlights

    cyclopsphoto.ca

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Neddog View Post
    What you are probably seeing is the shadow from the shutter curtain closing, because you are exceeding your max sync speed for the flash. Ensure that you keep your shutter under (slower than) 1/250s on the E-3 unless you are using FP mode (High Speed Sync).

    Well spotted!

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    That question's too easy for a studio photographer. I see that damned shutter curtain all the time, lol.
    Olympus E-3 | Olympus E-PL2 PEN | Olympus E-PM1 PEN | Zuiko ED 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 SWD | Zuiko 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 | Vivitar 100mm f/2.8 Macro | Carl Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2.8 | Konica Hexanon 50mm f/1.4 | Konica Hexanon 85mm f/1.8 | G.Zuiko 50mm f/1.4 | Zuiko 35mm f/3.5 Macro | Zuiko 25mm f/2.8 | KMZ Jupiter-3 50mm f/1.5 | E.Zuiko 200mm f/4 | Zuiko 75-150mm f/4 | Olympus EC-14 teleconverter | VF-2 and VF-3 Viewfinders | EMA-1 Mic Adapter | Olympus FL-36R and FL-50R speedlights

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    The FL 36 with the wide angle diffuser pulled out and over the main lens, will just barely cover an 11-12 mm focal length field of view. At 5' distance, and the lens near 12mm, the FL36 is aimed too high. If you unlock the head, you'll notice that it can tilt downwards by about 8 degrees. That will center the flash in the field of view a little better.

    I advise getting a Lumiquest Soft Box III for it ... It will soften and even out the light, and it will cover an 11mm focal length much more easily.

    It's not a second curtain shadow .. that would be a much harder dark section of the frame.

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    While using the wide panel, do check if it is activated or not from the flash menu. Also check if the zoom value reacts when the lens zooms.

    If the room ceiling is not too high, you can try bouncing flash by tiling up the flash beam.

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It's not a second curtain shadow .. that would be a much harder dark section of the frame.
    When you're not too far off max sync, the curtain will only create a soft shadow much like vignetting that comes from only one side. It can look like you just lost some light from one direction, always from the bottom of the horizontal frame. It doesn't have to be hard and straight, although this one is a little more rounded than you would expect from a curtain so it's kinda hard to tell.
    Olympus E-3 | Olympus E-PL2 PEN | Olympus E-PM1 PEN | Zuiko ED 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 SWD | Zuiko 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 | Vivitar 100mm f/2.8 Macro | Carl Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2.8 | Konica Hexanon 50mm f/1.4 | Konica Hexanon 85mm f/1.8 | G.Zuiko 50mm f/1.4 | Zuiko 35mm f/3.5 Macro | Zuiko 25mm f/2.8 | KMZ Jupiter-3 50mm f/1.5 | E.Zuiko 200mm f/4 | Zuiko 75-150mm f/4 | Olympus EC-14 teleconverter | VF-2 and VF-3 Viewfinders | EMA-1 Mic Adapter | Olympus FL-36R and FL-50R speedlights

    cyclopsphoto.ca

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Neddog View Post
    When you're not too far off max sync, the curtain will only create a soft shadow much like vignetting that comes from only one side. It can look like you just lost some light from one direction, always from the bottom of the horizontal frame. It doesn't have to be hard and straight, although this one is a little more rounded than you would expect from a curtain so it's kinda hard to tell.
    I pulled out the Sunpak 383, FL-36 and both E-5 and E-1.

    1- with the FL-36 and either E-5 or E-1, there's no easy way to set a shutter speed to anything above the X-sync shutter speed unless you turn on FP mode. With the 383, I can trick both bodies into setting higher shutter speeds. The result in that case is a sharp delineation of the second curtain shadow. No exceptions.

    2- with the FL-36 and either E-5 or E-1, replicating the OP's test of 12mm focal length @ 5' distance to a white wall, and the flash set to track focal length (showing 12mm on its display) the same uneven lighting .. dark at the bottom .. is produced with the head in the horizontal position. Clicking the head to the downwards inclined position, the flash pattern is more centered but still a little uneven (there's an upper and lower bar pattern with a slight shadow in the center).

    3- Employing the diffuser panel (showing 10 mm on the flash display, with the head tipped down as above) then produces a more even, centered illumination pattern with just a little evenly distributed falloff at the corners and edges.

    Recommend for these short distance, wide angle settings that you use the diffuser panel and tip the head downwards. The FL-36's coverage pattern is not quite wide enough to evenly illuminate a 12mm focal length FoV at this distance without the diffuser and with the head level.

    "When in doubt, test it out."

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    "When in doubt, test it out."
    I second it.

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    OK... thanks for the input everyone...

    1. No hood was used. As I noted, the one with the built in flash shows a shadow of the lens, the FL-36R is higher up, and should not cast a shadow on the lens.
    2. Shutter was 1/60.
    3. Same thing happens with my E-PL2 with 20mm f/1.7 lens...

    I think it's the flash...
    My name is Mike.
    Olympus E-3 ~ Zuiko 12-60 SWD FOR SALE
    GH2 ~ E-P3
    ~ 14mm f/2.5 ~ 20mm f/1.7 ~ 14-42 ~ 40-150
    Google+ ~ razzi

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by mguffin View Post
    OK... thanks for the input everyone...

    1. No hood was used. As I noted, the one with the built in flash shows a shadow of the lens, the FL-36R is higher up, and should not cast a shadow on the lens.
    2. Shutter was 1/60.
    3. Same thing happens with my E-PL2 with 20mm f/1.7 lens...

    I think it's the flash...
    Given the information you just provided, that eliminates all kinds of diagnosis. I think you're right about it being the flash. Maybe something's wrong with the zoom or something, and the flash is not sitting right in the head? Was it ever dropped? Do you have your zoom on the flash matching the focal length of your lens, and is it set to 4/3 and not 35mm? I do notice that you are showing some vignetting on all corners, but predominantly on the bottom.

    I assume you don't have another flash to test... Try shooting with a diffuser on your flash.
    Olympus E-3 | Olympus E-PL2 PEN | Olympus E-PM1 PEN | Zuiko ED 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 SWD | Zuiko 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 | Vivitar 100mm f/2.8 Macro | Carl Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2.8 | Konica Hexanon 50mm f/1.4 | Konica Hexanon 85mm f/1.8 | G.Zuiko 50mm f/1.4 | Zuiko 35mm f/3.5 Macro | Zuiko 25mm f/2.8 | KMZ Jupiter-3 50mm f/1.5 | E.Zuiko 200mm f/4 | Zuiko 75-150mm f/4 | Olympus EC-14 teleconverter | VF-2 and VF-3 Viewfinders | EMA-1 Mic Adapter | Olympus FL-36R and FL-50R speedlights

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I pulled out the Sunpak 383, FL-36 and both E-5 and E-1.

    1- with the FL-36 and either E-5 or E-1, there's no easy way to set a shutter speed to anything above the X-sync shutter speed unless you turn on FP mode. With the 383, I can trick both bodies into setting higher shutter speeds. The result in that case is a sharp delineation of the second curtain shadow. No exceptions.
    I know this is now a side discussion, as it no longer applies to the OP from his last posting, but...

    You're right about there not being much way to get past x-sync... if he's using auto flash. I never use Auto, so this had not occurred to me.

    However, it seems odd to me that you could not get the soft shadow. I shoot in a studio all day, and through an 8 hour day of solid shooting in Manual mode, it's bound to happen that I will accidentally knock a dial and put my shutter speed too fast sometime throughout the day. When this happens, I get a very soft shadow on the bottom of the frame if the shutter speed is still within 1/3 EV stop from x-sync. Any faster, and the shadow starts to get sharp.

    Perhaps it's your power used or other factors of your lighting. Also, the shadow is sharper on a DSLR than a mirrorless camera, and I have taken to using mirrorless exclusively in the studio, as it is much easier to handle for 8 hours a day as well as easier to get those difficult angles. However, even with the DSLRs I still had the soft shadow within 1/3 stop from x-sync.
    Olympus E-3 | Olympus E-PL2 PEN | Olympus E-PM1 PEN | Zuiko ED 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 SWD | Zuiko 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 | Vivitar 100mm f/2.8 Macro | Carl Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2.8 | Konica Hexanon 50mm f/1.4 | Konica Hexanon 85mm f/1.8 | G.Zuiko 50mm f/1.4 | Zuiko 35mm f/3.5 Macro | Zuiko 25mm f/2.8 | KMZ Jupiter-3 50mm f/1.5 | E.Zuiko 200mm f/4 | Zuiko 75-150mm f/4 | Olympus EC-14 teleconverter | VF-2 and VF-3 Viewfinders | EMA-1 Mic Adapter | Olympus FL-36R and FL-50R speedlights

    cyclopsphoto.ca

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by mguffin View Post
    OK... thanks for the input everyone...

    1. No hood was used. As I noted, the one with the built in flash shows a shadow of the lens, the FL-36R is higher up, and should not cast a shadow on the lens.
    2. Shutter was 1/60.
    3. Same thing happens with my E-PL2 with 20mm f/1.7 lens...

    I think it's the flash...
    Mike, is it a new flash you just bought? have you check the zoom reading at the LCD screen of the flash? does it response when you zoom the lens? is it set to TTL? there are several settings at the flash, you can set it according to the instruction from the flash manual.

    http://www.olympus.co.jp/en/support/...an_fl36r_e.pdf

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    The flash was set to the correct zoom, I did not drop it, and it was bought used from my local camera store. I returned it. I will look for another flash.

    Thanks for your input everyone...
    My name is Mike.
    Olympus E-3 ~ Zuiko 12-60 SWD FOR SALE
    GH2 ~ E-P3
    ~ 14mm f/2.5 ~ 20mm f/1.7 ~ 14-42 ~ 40-150
    Google+ ~ razzi

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    Sorry we couldn't be of more help, but I hope you find a good flash! I haven't had trouble yet with any of the used flashes I've bought (including some Olympus FL-50 and FL-50Rs), but you never know...
    Olympus E-3 | Olympus E-PL2 PEN | Olympus E-PM1 PEN | Zuiko ED 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 SWD | Zuiko 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 | Vivitar 100mm f/2.8 Macro | Carl Zeiss Sonnar 135mm f/2.8 | Konica Hexanon 50mm f/1.4 | Konica Hexanon 85mm f/1.8 | G.Zuiko 50mm f/1.4 | Zuiko 35mm f/3.5 Macro | Zuiko 25mm f/2.8 | KMZ Jupiter-3 50mm f/1.5 | E.Zuiko 200mm f/4 | Zuiko 75-150mm f/4 | Olympus EC-14 teleconverter | VF-2 and VF-3 Viewfinders | EMA-1 Mic Adapter | Olympus FL-36R and FL-50R speedlights

    cyclopsphoto.ca

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    Default Re: Maybe I am missing something...

    I've had great luck with my Metz 48 AF on my 520- maybe you should look outside the Oly line of flashes- it is more powerful than the 36 (and a little higher I believe), but not as expensive as the 50. I don't see any new ones on amazon, but I do see some 44 AFs, I wonder if they changed it up...

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