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Thread: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

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    Default my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    ...ok folks, after having this little gem for just less than a week now, I am truly enamored with this camera, to my way of thinking, this is what they originally promised when they first introduced the whole 4/3rds concept over ten years ago. Smaller, lighter and less bulkier with all the same performance as the "big guys" and designed from the ground up to be digital as opposed to carryover technology from the film era...
    ...which leads to my quandary, if these cameras are actually outperforming my E5 and E3 then what are the reasons to keep them? What about the glass? Are there going to be smaller and faster m4/3rds lenses that can equal my SHG 4/3rds lenses? As my signature lists, I have the 14-35f2 and 35-100f2 along with the HG 12-60SWD, 50-100SWD and 50 macro. If I were to put them on th emarket now I'd most likely get a fair dollar for them as opposed to waiting to see what happens next. I can live with this EVF, it isn't a true replacement for an OVF but I can handle it with the expectation that they will only get better. The E-M5 is an absolute delight to work with, its like second nature to me, I literally don't have to think about what I'm doing all the time, just concentrate on the shot in front of me, which is what its all about anyway. AND!!...I'm certainly not missing the additional weight and extra bulk of my 4/3rds equipment...
    ...give me some feedback please, are any of you feeling this way? Have any of you made the complete jump? Does doing so make sense right now? And as always, thanks for any and all thoughts and comments you may have...
    cheers,

    Lorne Miller

    http://lornemiller.smugmug.com/

    4/3rds stuff: E-1 w HLD-2
    35-100 f2, 14-35 f2 SWD, 50-200 SWD
    m4/3rds stuff: OM-D E-M5 x 2, mZD 12-50, mZD 40-150, mZD 14-42

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    If you have any need for fast focus response, shooting fast lenses wide open in daylight, dim/low light composition and manual focus, then the E-M5 takes second place to the pro E-series bodies.

    4/3 lens focus on the E-M5 is too slow for me to consider using the combination for anything other than contemplative shooting. For faster, more difficult situations I'll keep using the E-5 and E-30. The 4/3 lens collection has a long way to go to match what we have in native 4/3.

    None of this means I don't love the little new camera--I do.

    Cheers,

    Rick

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    With your collection of beautiful glass, I would think it is too soon to convert. You can't get a replacement for all of them.

    Also, I will not be surprised if Olympus releases an E-7 this autumn with the E-M5 sensor in it. In that case, I would think a E-M5 + E-7 would be the best combination?
    flickr | "God made the integers; all else is the work of man" - Leopold Kronecker

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    I agree with what's said. Keep it. For one m4/3rd has nothing to match the quality. Let the OMD wow factor die down a little. See if you really can live with the m4/3rd lenses. If so I would sale it later. I doubt the value will fall to much.


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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    I don't have any opinion about your question, Lorne, but I suggest that you add the E-M5 to your signature, if you are going to list your equipment there. For the first three-quarters of your posting, I thought you were talking about some "little gem" of a camera from some other manufacturer and didn't want to mention the make or model to avoid offending people in Oly-land. Finally you mentioned the E-M5, and I finally knew what you are referring to (I think). Just a suggestion, for clarity...
    Rich
    Olympus E-M10; Panasonic GM5
    m4/3 lenses: Oly 75-300; Oly 14-42 f3.5-5.6 II R; Oly 17 f1.8; Oly 40-150 f4.0-5.6 R; Oly WCON-P01 adapter; Rokinon f7.5 fisheye; Sigma 19 f2.8; Pan 20 f1.7; Pan 12-35 f2.8; Pan 12-32

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorne Miller View Post
    ...give me some feedback please, are any of you feeling this way?
    No. I held and played with EM-5 with all my 4/3 lenses and was not tweaked by the ergonomics. IQ was fine, and my 4/3 lenses AF worked just ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorne Miller View Post
    Have any of you made the complete jump?
    Not even close. It would take an AF miracle for me to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorne Miller View Post
    Does doing so make sense right now?
    I don't think so. Wait until after Photokina anyway. See what Oly has for us in September.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorne Miller View Post
    And as always, thanks for any and all thoughts and comments you may have...
    DIBS ON THE HLD-2!
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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Remember, Olympus always puts their latest IQ technology into a model at the time it's released. This has often lead to non-pro bodies outperforming the flagship model, that is, until the next flagship comes out. Let's hope Oly holds nothing back with the anticipated E-5 successor. It's pretty much guaranteed to be E-M5 quality or better for image output, and should do everything else as well as the E-5.
    -Mark
    E-PL2 | WCON-07 | 14mm F2.5 | 20mm F1.7 | Pentax 25mm F1.4 | 35mm F1.7 c-mount | FL-50 | MA1 | SEMA-1

    OM-2n | 28mm F3.5 | 50mm F1.4 | 135mm F3.5 | Sigma 600mm F8 | T-20 | 2x Vivitar 2800

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Quote Originally Posted by thebinaryman View Post
    Remember, Olympus always puts their latest IQ technology into a model at the time it's released. This has often lead to non-pro bodies outperforming the flagship model, that is, until the next flagship comes out. Let's hope Oly holds nothing back with the anticipated E-5 successor. It's pretty much guaranteed to be E-M5 quality or better for image output, and should do everything else as well as the E-5.
    And if that's the case, as I fully expect it will be, I'll sell a kid to...oh, wait, did I say that?
    Cameras: E-M1 Mk1
    Lenses: Oly 12-40 PRO / Oly 60 Macro / Sigma 300/4 APO Tele Macro / 50-200 SWD
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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAH View Post
    I don't have any opinion about your question, Lorne, but I suggest that you add the E-M5 to your signature, if you are going to list your equipment there. For the first three-quarters of your posting, I thought you were talking about some "little gem" of a camera from some other manufacturer and didn't want to mention the make or model to avoid offending people in Oly-land. Finally you mentioned the E-M5, and I finally knew what you are referring to (I think). Just a suggestion, for clarity...
    ...done...!!
    cheers,

    Lorne Miller

    http://lornemiller.smugmug.com/

    4/3rds stuff: E-1 w HLD-2
    35-100 f2, 14-35 f2 SWD, 50-200 SWD
    m4/3rds stuff: OM-D E-M5 x 2, mZD 12-50, mZD 40-150, mZD 14-42

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    The E-5 successor will be something new ....... keep your 4/3 glasses ......

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Well now we know that the E-M5 sensor is made by Sony, and not a cast off from Panasonic like the E5, then there is every hope that an E7 could be the greatest Olympus ever. But the newer lenses now coming out for m4/3, now it has grown up with weather sealed bodies and iQ to beat the 4/3 camera's, there is still a quandry. The new 12-35mm f2.8 weather sealed Panasonic zoom is every bit as good as the Olympus 12-60 for IQ (given the trade off range on the Olympus hand and speed on the Panasonic).

    Steve

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    Well now we know that the E-M5 sensor is made by Sony, and not a cast off from Panasonic like the E5, then there is every hope that an E7 could be the greatest Olympus ever. But the newer lenses now coming out for m4/3, now it has grown up with weather sealed bodies and iQ to beat the 4/3 camera's, there is still a quandry. The new 12-35mm f2.8 weather sealed Panasonic zoom is every bit as good as the Olympus 12-60 for IQ (given the trade off range on the Olympus hand and speed on the Panasonic).

    Steve
    I am not sure it is a problem. If an E-7 is released this year; then the HG and SHG glass owner has an upgrade strategy. It will also give the OM-D series time to mature, so at some time in future I expect there is an Olympus -4/3 body that focuses those lenses the way we want - fast and precise.
    flickr | "God made the integers; all else is the work of man" - Leopold Kronecker

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsi42 View Post
    I am not sure it is a problem. If an E-7 is released this year; then the HG and SHG glass owner has an upgrade strategy. It will also give the OM-D series time to mature, so at some time in future I expect there is an Olympus -4/3 body that focuses those lenses the way we want - fast and precise.
    ...and that is what I was hoping to hear, after reflecting on things I really don't want to get rid of all of my Oly glass, particularly the fast lenses, if there's a future for them. The basic laws of physics still apply to lenses, the only way to get more light is to have a larger opening and I don't yet see any m4/3rds fixed f2 or 2.8 longer lenses that are the equivalent of what is available from standard 4/3rds. I have sold one of the E-5's and a few kit lenses I had along with the 14-54. That has paid for the E-M5 with 12-50 and gives me a bit of a stash to put towards another m4/3rds lens. I'm delighted with the E-M5 and will now search out what other lens I want to get for it, so for the time being it will remain my glove box camera, which is what I bought it for. It's the camera that's "always there" so you don't miss things...
    cheers,

    Lorne Miller

    http://lornemiller.smugmug.com/

    4/3rds stuff: E-1 w HLD-2
    35-100 f2, 14-35 f2 SWD, 50-200 SWD
    m4/3rds stuff: OM-D E-M5 x 2, mZD 12-50, mZD 40-150, mZD 14-42

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    There is nothing wrong with the IQ of the E5. The E-M5 handles noise much better but that's it. I would almost trade back to the E5 just for the lenses. Olympus needs to come out with some razor sharp m4/3rd lenses.


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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorne Miller View Post
    ...and that is what I was hoping to hear, after reflecting on things I really don't want to get rid of all of my Oly glass, particularly the fast lenses, if there's a future for them. The basic laws of physics still apply to lenses, the only way to get more light is to have a larger opening and I don't yet see any m4/3rds fixed f2 or 2.8 longer lenses that are the equivalent of what is available from standard 4/3rds. I have sold one of the E-5's and a few kit lenses I had along with the 14-54. That has paid for the E-M5 with 12-50 and gives me a bit of a stash to put towards another m4/3rds lens. I'm delighted with the E-M5 and will now search out what other lens I want to get for it, so for the time being it will remain my glove box camera, which is what I bought it for. It's the camera that's "always there" so you don't miss things...
    Glad to hear you've made up your mind to keep your glass. Good choice.

    I would like to ask a couple of questions.

    How important is the money you have invested in your 4/3 glass? Would it be any kind of a blow if your yield when you decide to let go of the 4/3 glass amounted to 25 to 45% of your purchase prices. (notice I did not use the word investment as no hobby inspired purchase, or for that matter, cost of tools of a profession should ever be classed as investments.) When you bought these lenses was resale any kind of a consideration on the purchase?

    Second question, I just browsed through your Smug Mug albums? Very nice work. I see you are also much car oriented as I am. So here is the question? Are there any images in that album that could not have been produced with the OM-D and it's current complement of lenses, plus the Panasonic counterparts? From all I am seeing on this new camera, I'd be surprised if you said any of the images are not reproducible with the Micro gear. OM-D and current stable of lenses.

    Lastly, regarding a replacement for the E-5 in the full DSLR body, I'd be a little nervous on this point. I spend a lot more time on a couple of other sites than this one. (Especially after the software change over as I find it difficult to tell if I am on 4/3photo vs Largeformatphotography.info)

    There is a spike in the posts on the Olympus OM-D... Big Spike... over at RFF. In fact a recent post was specifically about the surprise for all the "love" for the new m43 interloper. Used to be able to find large numbers of 4/3 haters on that site. Not so much any more.

    If the growing interest in the new OM-D by relatively die hard RFF'rs and others persists and grows it may have an impact on the future of any direct replacement for the E-5. These new buyers are not impeded by ownership of any standard 4/3 lenses. If that continues to be true, the Olympus path forward may lead toward faster development of micro lenses that are fast and equivalent in IQ to the lenses you now own. Or, a better path may be to pursue whatever is necessary to make your inventory workable on the PENS. Meeting the demands for the new micro cameras may get in the way of a new full DSLR, in terms of developing the new technology into the bulkier body, and retaining the battery system that can handle your current lenses power requirements for fast AF.

    Personally, it would not surprise me if Olympus will succumb to the marketplace and surpass a new full size DSLR.

    But back to the original point of your post, it occurs to me that while you mention value of the lenses, it is not really a factor, ie. the money does not really matter.

    Generally, most serious hobbyists and professionals in any field, want what they want and find a way to pay for it.

    Me... I'd cut and run.... I don't have that kind of budget, and I would be bailing, getting the most money I can for the old stuff before prices drop, and put the money into a dedicated fund to buy the newer, lighter, faster focusing lenses (both primes and zooms) that must surely come with the increased purchasing of the micro 4/3 platform.

    I am seriously interested in the OM-D, but will likely wait until the PEN that has the technology of the OM-D, less some things like weather proofing, and perhaps the tilt steering unit (lcd) is proffered for our consideration, at a lesser price. Then I can direct more money to the higher quality lenses that are sure to come.

    And by way of following this plan, I originally started using 4/3 with the E-1 and the Evolt E-300, and have owned a lot of Olympus equipment since then. That equipment is all sold now, and my Olympus needs are met adequately for me with the E-PL1, and perhaps an E-P3 body in the interim.

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Quote Originally Posted by saichiez View Post
    Me... I'd cut and run.... I don't have that kind of budget, and I would be bailing, getting the most money I can for the old stuff before prices drop, and put the money into a dedicated fund to buy the newer, lighter, faster focusing lenses (both primes and zooms) that must surely come with the increased purchasing of the micro 4/3 platform.
    I couldn't see selling world class lenses I hold in my hand for the promise of lenses that don't yet exist.

    Wishing that Olympus or anyone produces glass as good for m4/3 as the 4/3 Zuiko lenses are is as much a stretch as wishing for a new traditional 4/3 DSLR.

    Conversely, I already hold some of these world-class lenses, therefore I'm willing to give Olympus the benefit of the doubt that I'll see another traditional DSLR.
    Cameras: E-M1 Mk1
    Lenses: Oly 12-40 PRO / Oly 60 Macro / Sigma 300/4 APO Tele Macro / 50-200 SWD
    Converters: EX-25
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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Bail and give me a super duper price on your E-5 and 35-100!!

    Jim
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs. - Ansel Adams


    E-5, E-30, E-500, - Oly 150 F-2, Oly 9-18, 50 Macro, 40-150, 50-200 non-SWD, Oly 70-300, and 14-54, EC-14, EC-20, FL-36R, Bower SFD9260 TTL Flash, Cokin Pro Z Filter System, Oh, and more than likely, more on the way!!!

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    I will hold out for the E-7. Even the E-620 is too small for me.
    E-510 IR 665nm, 14-42mm II, 40-150mm II

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    It is easy to make the E-M5 bigger and heavier to be comfortable, but impossible to make an E5 (E7) smaller or lighter.

    Steve

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorne Miller View Post
    Have any of you made the complete jump? Does doing so make sense right now? And as always, thanks for any and all thoughts and comments you may have...
    Lorne,

    I though long and hard about this and decided no....

    My key piece of kit is the 12-60 and that does not balance well nor does it focus fast on any m4/3 camera, so I recently bought an E5.

    It is a bit heavy but somehow always seems to screw a bit more out of that lovely lens. I am delighted with my decision and would be even more so if I had SHG lenses like you do.
    Peter J

    OM-D E-M5 E-P3, E-P2, VF-2, M17, M14-42 ll, M12-50, M40-150 Mk2 M74-300 Mk2, Pana M14-42PZ, DMW-MA1, 14-54 ll, 25 pancake, 35, FL50.
    Sony RX100. SonyRX10

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Lorne - I made the "jump" fully to m4/3 a few years back. But if I was invested in the lenses you have (my best two were the original 50-200, which I sold a few years prior to the "jump" and the 12-60, which I replaced with the 14-54II when I jumped), I would not completely "dive in".
    While I wish that Olympus would make better IQ zooms - but I do have the 12-50 and really like it - I have neither the need or desire for the bigger/heavier stuff at this point. My photography (travel, family & pets) is for my personal enjoyment and the IQ that I can get out of the EM5 and the m4/3 lenses I have (12-50, 14mm, 20mm and the 40-150) is fine for me. But I am probably about as far from "pixel peeper" as you can get.
    The Panasonic 12-35 holds some interest for me - the aperture speed is obviously a big improvement over the 12-50 and the sharpness/contrast seem better - but for me the long end is a bit short. I am hoping that the rumors of Olympus releasing a 12-60 for m4/3 - albeit bigger, heavier and probably more expensive than the 12-50 - is very interesting. Would love it.
    Steve

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    I sold my 14-35,35-100,150mm. Optically very good of course. I don't miss the weight at all, especially the 35-100. I kept my 50-200swd to mount on my EM-5 for certain images. It focus on the EM-5 about as fast as my 14-35 did on the E-3/5. 14-35 owners you can't tell me that that lens is not a pig, I've owned two of them and used them on three different cameras. (so pissed Olympus screwed that up)

    I don't miss these lenses one bit. I still have one E-5 and use it with my 300f2.8 which my be on the block soon. Good luck with whatever you decide. I'm not looking back.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lorne Miller View Post
    ...ok folks, after having this little gem for just less than a week now, I am truly enamored with this camera, to my way of thinking, this is what they originally promised when they first introduced the whole 4/3rds concept over ten years ago. Smaller, lighter and less bulkier with all the same performance as the "big guys" and designed from the ground up to be digital as opposed to carryover technology from the film era...
    ...which leads to my quandary, if these cameras are actually outperforming my E5 and E3 then what are the reasons to keep them? What about the glass? Are there going to be smaller and faster m4/3rds lenses that can equal my SHG 4/3rds lenses? As my signature lists, I have the 14-35f2 and 35-100f2 along with the HG 12-60SWD, 50-100SWD and 50 macro. If I were to put them on th emarket now I'd most likely get a fair dollar for them as opposed to waiting to see what happens next. I can live with this EVF, it isn't a true replacement for an OVF but I can handle it with the expectation that they will only get better. The E-M5 is an absolute delight to work with, its like second nature to me, I literally don't have to think about what I'm doing all the time, just concentrate on the shot in front of me, which is what its all about anyway. AND!!...I'm certainly not missing the additional weight and extra bulk of my 4/3rds equipment...
    ...give me some feedback please, are any of you feeling this way? Have any of you made the complete jump? Does doing so make sense right now? And as always, thanks for any and all thoughts and comments you may have...

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    Out of curiosity, because I'm actually thinking about buying one of those two lenses, how do the 35-100 and 150 AF on the EM5? Typically, I shoot the sort of contemplative subjects that don't demand lightning quick AF. It's down to one of those two, or maybe the 75 1.8, and I'm really waiting to see what the 75 can do in the hands of owners, not reviewers.

    I use my old non SWD 50-200 on the EM5 a lot. AF is quirky and somewhat slow, but M43 has nothing like this right now. Their tele zooms are all slow, and have you stuck between shooting wide open and hitting DL if you stop down, whereas the good old 50-200 has aperture to spare, and remains sharp in dim light.

    Up until now, Panny has been repro'ing some of the better ZD's in M43 form, and doing okay but not terrific with them. 7-14 is pretty good, don't know much about their 8FE, the 12-35 did show some vignetting at 12/2.8, something that SHG ZD would never do. But, now that Oly is operating more independently of Panny by getting the outside sensor, perhaps they'll start converting the ZD legends to full M43 form, in all their glory.

    So I see hanging onto those lenses as a gamble. If Oly fixes the ZD AF situation in a future EM, and that may be possible with PDAF on sensor, they'll at least hold their value due to increased demand. If they don't, or especially if they start recreating the better ZD's in a more compact M43 form with fast AF, the price will plunge much as some of the HG ZD's have. I'm gambling that they will fix ZD AF in a future OM-D, but I might be wrong.

    There is likely to be an E7 with the EM5 sensor, perhaps the EM5 IBIS if it can be fitted, but that's likely to be the last 4/3 body. Clearly, the EM5 points the way to the future, it's backlog of orders right now indicates that.

    BTW - have you tried the 45 1.8? Just a superb little lens, in the HG ZD image quality range, and AF's unbeliveably fast.
    E3, E1, E330, EP1, EM5
    ZD: 7-14, 8FE, PL25 1.4, 14-54, 35-100, 50-200, 70-300 50 Macro, EX-25
    MZD: 12-50, 45 1.8, 14-150
    Nikkor: 105 1.8, 400 3.5, TC301 teleconverter
    FL-50, STF-22

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    The 150 locked a little faster than the 50-200 in the few times I've tried it, possibly in part because of the focus limit switch. I don't have the E-M5 grip so haven't used the combo much, yet. With just the body it's far more suited to tripod use.

    The little camera seems to wring a lot of detail out of the super-sharp 150.

    Cheers,

    Rick

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    Default Re: my 4/3rds stuff, should I bail?

    After a six week backorder wait, I received the E-M5, body-only with the grip, and used it for the first time in a concert setting with my much-loved 'concert' lens, the 35-100mm f/2. With the E-30 and the big lens, of course I balanced the weight on my left hand. That hasn't changed, and the E-M5 + 35-100 handles equally well and feels just as heavy.

    http://aafinnerty.smugmug.com/The-Ce...-Mike-and-Deb/

    The show was a one-man comedy act by Will Durst. The stage lighting was the same as concerts though - maybe on the dim side of the range I see. Even though I tended to underexpose a little because I'm not used to the EVF yet, noise was lower and dynamic range was better than I have ever seen in my concert photos.

    AF speed with the 35-100mm f/2 is about what others have reported for other Four Thirds lenses - 2 seconds. Not a problem for most stage events, where my usual technique is to focus on my subject then wait for the right moment before triggering the shutter. However at a 'Battle of the Bands' last weekend (photos not ready yet), action on stage was sometimes too fast and I missed shots.

    At the Will Durst show I found that MF worked very well because of the combination of three features of the E-M5. The EVF is much brighter in low light than the optical viewfinder of 4/3 cameras, so I could see better for manually focusing. Second, the automagic switching to magnified view when touching the focus ring was wonderful. Third, the EVF stabilization made MF much easier at the high magnification offered by long focal length + EVF magnification. I photographed a Fourth of July parade with MF too, using the 14-54 Mk 1. MF worked as well as in the concert hall, but I did miss fast AF at times.

    AF hit rate with PDAF on Four Thirds cameras declines as stage lighting is dimmer, as low as 25% in the lowest stage lighting, maybe lower. After trying E-M5 CDAF for only part of one show I believe I see the same deterioration of AF hit rate in lower light. When I switched to MF, suddenly my hit rate for sharp focus was much higher. MF will become faster with practice but, even now, it is faster than CDAF with the Four Thirds lens. Try MF with your 'contemplative subjects'.

    Will faster focusing be important for some of your anticipated work with the 35-100mm f/2 lens? I have been thinking about getting the Panny 35-100mm f/2.8 lens when it is released, so I have fast AF for those times when there is more action on stage. If the optical quality is good enough compared to SHG glass, the appeal of a smaller, lighter lens will tip the scale in favor of the Panny lens, despite losing one stop of light. Early reports about the 12-35 f/2.8 lens look good enough that I have pre-ordered one.

    For concert photography I usually want more DOF than I can get with the lens wide open. If you will need the thinnest DOF possible for your work, that is enough reason to buy the SHG lens instead of the slower Panny 35-100.

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