Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Petach Tikva, Israel
    Posts
    397
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    Hi,

    In a discussion about shooting with flash fill-in in bright sun light, I ran into the following advice:

    "...you will of course need to adjust the flash settings manually for the exposure you need. If you want to shoot at wide aperture in bright sunlight with flash (not in SuperFP mode), you will need a ND filter to avoid over-exposure even at lowest ISO of 200.

    Remember "sunny 16 rule" bright sunlight exposure at ISO 200, f/16 = 1/200th sec, at this speed, a ND8 3 stop filter will allow f/5.6. ..."

    I read this suggestion in the past more than once, is it correct?

    To my understanding, the problem in not the absolute, but rather the ratio of sun-light to flash intensity. Both sun-light and flash will be reduced by 3 stops, the ratio will remain the same.

    Or not ???

    Moshe

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Sibenik, Croatia
    Posts
    854
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)

    Default Re: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    Yes, but remember that flash also has a duration which depends on how powerful the flash setting is.

    The more "power" you select, flash burst will last less and vice versa.

    This means that for certain applications you would want ND filter (to get shallow DoF or slower sync speeds).

    For f8 or so, it doesn't matter much, but if you're shooting in bright conditions and want to get shallow DoF you need ND filter, not to mention that you'd want to get best IQ possible and f16 is soft on 43rds due to diffraction.
    Cheers,
    Marin

    E-M5, 7.5mm fisheye, 12mm, 45mm, various flashes and misc.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7,777
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Re: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    http://forum.fourthirdsphoto.com/f52...ups-19507.html. Did you ever try my suggested flash settings? They work with all 4/3 cameras. I never tried them with m4/3.
    Last edited by E B; 09-09-2012 at 04:17 PM.
    Good shooting,
    English Bob

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Little Britain, ON, Canada
    Posts
    289
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default Re: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    I'm thinking the reason for the nd is to reduce your shutter speed to withing the flash synch speed of the camera.
    In bright sunlight, if you're using a small aperture to reduce shutter speed, the flash won't have much effect, either, unless you're very close.
    Capturing the beauty of nature, one frame at a time.

    Prints available @: http://double-s-posure.smugmug.com; http://stan-wojtaszek.artistwebsites.com


    E5, E30, E-510, 9-18, 14-54, 14-42, Sigma 105, 50-200, EC14, FL50R and a bunch of other stuff.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    284
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Re: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    Quote Originally Posted by E B View Post
    http://forum.fourthirdsphoto.com/f52...ups-19507.html. Did you ever try my suggested flash settings? They work with all 4/3 cameras. I never tried them with m4/3.
    I can thoroughly endorse this! I printed it out when you first published it (2006??) and have used it as my sole reference for using flash. Thanks again, it never fails.
    Peter J

    OM-D E-M5 E-P3, E-P2, VF-2, M17, M14-42 ll, M12-50, M40-150 Mk2 M74-300 Mk2, Pana M14-42PZ, DMW-MA1, 14-54 ll, 25 pancake, 35, FL50.
    Sony RX100. SonyRX10

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7,777
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Re: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    My pleasure.
    Good shooting,
    English Bob

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Petach Tikva, Israel
    Posts
    397
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Re: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    Thank you all for your replies! Of course I'm familiar with E B's instructions, this was the bible for the use of flash for years.

    My question was more of a theoretical nature. It assumed manual flash, not FP TTL (since in this mode the flash power is reduced drastically), and I don't think flash duration has much of an effect here.

    With these assumptions, does the use of an ND filter (or changing ISO) make sense?

    Moshe

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona - Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    340
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Feedback Score
    0

    Default Re: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    I think it's a good idea to own a 3-stop neutral density filter. I noticed that in bright sunlight I couldn't shoot wide open.
    So I just purchased a Hoya Ultra Multi-Coated ND8 for my 14-54mm Zuiko. Now I realize that I can also use it with my
    FL-36 flash for the same reason. It's time to dig out that little marvel (FL-36) and really learn how to use it this winter!
    E-510 IR 665nm, 14-42mm II, 40-150mm II

    OM-D E-M1 +
    14-54mm II

    Body Cap Lens 15mm f/8 & 9mm f/8 "fisheye"


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    West central Illinois (USA)
    Posts
    892
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default Re: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    Quote Originally Posted by pjphoto59 View Post
    I can thoroughly endorse this! I printed it out when you first published it (2006??) and have used it as my sole reference for using flash. Thanks again, it never fails.
    +1
    Old enough to know better, young enough not to care.
    E-5, E-3, E-500; ZD 9-18, 12-60, 14-54 I, 35, 50, 50-200 SWD, PL 25; EC-14; FL-50, HLD-4
    E-M5; m.ZD 12-50, MMF-3, HLD-6
    Nikon D800,
    Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED, 24-70mm f/2.8G ED, 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II, 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR II, 105mm f/2.8G ED IF VR micro
    B+W & Cokin filters, Giottos MT-8361 tripod with Acratech GP ball head

    jlhemingwayphotos.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    1,335
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)

    Default Re: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    You can also use a polarizer to slow down shutter speed. Most CPL's reduce up to two stops.

    Here are a couple examples of how I use flash during bright, sunny days...

    This one was in the shade, so I could use f7.1. I didn't want to go any lower than f7.1 for fear that the rider would not be entirely in focus.

    E-510 / 14mm / 1/200th / f7.1 / ISO 200
    One Sunpak 433D, camera right, half power
    One Sunpak 433D, camera left, half power

    Triggered with Yongnuo CTR-301P



    This one was shot at around noon, so it was BRIGHT. I used the lowest ISO and fastest shutter speed allowable to make it appear a little dark outside. I used the flashes to stop most of the motion and used f14 to ensure the skater would mostly be in focus.

    E-5 / 14mm / 1/250th / f14 / ISO 100
    Two Sunpak 433D on one stand, both at full power, camera left

    Triggered with Paul Buff Cybersyncs
    Skater Kid

    If you must shoot in bright, direct sunlight (which I try to avoid at all costs due to harsh light and squinty eyes), use an ND filter to cut down the shutter speed and make sure your ISO is at its lowest setting. That is if you want a narrow DOF. If you want that nice, blurry background without using your lens wide open, use a longer lens and zoom in on your subject. The further your model is away from the background, the more blur you will see. I shoot portraits at f5.6-f8 all the time, but I stand way back and zoom in to 100mm+.

    I hope some of this helped
    Name's Trevor, feel free to check out my various sites!
    Celerity Photography / Flickr / Facebook / Twitter
    E-5 w/HLD-4 / 2xE-510 w/Ownuser BH-E51R / 9-18mm / 14-54mm MKI / 50-200mm MKI / Sigma 30mm f1.4 / 2xFL-50
    (5) Sunpak 433D / Cybersyncs / Cokin Z-Pro U960 Kit / Manfrotto 190XB w/ 486RC2 Ball Head


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    3,686
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)
    Real Name
    Ann

    Default Re: Flash fill-in in bright sun-light

    Originally Posted by pjphoto59
    I can thoroughly endorse this! I printed it out when you first published it (2006??) and have used it as my sole reference for using flash. Thanks again, it never fails.
    Quote Originally Posted by elbows2 View Post
    +1
    +2
    Appreciate what we have, instead of worrying about what we haven't. Enjoy what is, before it isn't.
    --------
    http://www.scenicphotos4u.smugmug.com
    Moderator/Photo Contests Forum

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •