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Thread: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

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    Default Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    I posted this on another forum but responding to "site feedback thread" made me think of posting it here as well.

    Interestingly the most helpful reply I got was from a member of this forum!

    "Like many people my pile of camera gear has evolved, the most recent acquisition was a Fuji X100, to solve the low light inadequacies of both the Leica M8 and Olympus E3.


    I only keep the Oly for one event each year, my little town has racing lawn mower races and I'm relied upon to supply adequate pics for internet use and maybe the occasional A.4 print - I get an acceptable result from E3 +70-300 (140 - 600 in 35mm terms) but..............it takes a fair bit of pp and really they should be quite a bit better. I also have a Zuiko 11-22 very handy wide angle.

    The other jobs for my cameras are far more crucial, I'm a sculptor and require good shots of my own work for catalogue printing and general internet stuff. The Leica is the go-to camera for this, Though I have noticed that X100 renders marble beautifully. To go with the M8 I have CV Color Skopar 21/4 (nice little lens) CV Ultron 28/2 (has it's moments quite good but is generally out-gunned by X100), CV Nokton 35/1.2 (outrageously good) Summiron 50/2 V4 (renders subjects beautifully) and Elmarit 90/2.8 (also renders subjects beautifully - hard to focus!!) when taking pictures of sculptures I usually use a tripod and take my time.

    We have an art gallery and until I got the X100 I used the Leica to take opening events.

    I'd be reluctant to reduce my kit to just one camera. The Oly is both the oldest and worst. The Leica is great but my bones tell me the Fuji X Pro1 could be a good bit better.........I'd get an XP1 tomorrow if I could see a reasonable way of taking the racing lawn mower pics with it!!

    OK what do I keep and what do I buy? Thanks in advance for your help".

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    I'd say keep what you reach for the most and works for you, sell the rest...

    On the other hand...

    Before you sell the E-3 you really should consider borrowing/purchasing a 50-200 for the next race, then decide

    Cheers, Don
    From E-510/E-30/E-3/E-5 to Nikon D7100 and now D7200/D800/D500
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    I'm SURE that m4/3rds is the answer... Ha ha ha!!!
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    thanks roger!....................see you in Fujiland

    Don - funny you should mention 50-200 I have looked at them on eBay but in a way the first part of your answer nails it - the Oly doesn't get used and the 70-300 used to cut it but is not quite there these days. It would the most unexpected outcome if I just kept the E-3, sold 11-22 and 70-300 and got 50-200 - but it is worth a thought

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Quote Originally Posted by roger h View Post
    I'm SURE that m4/3rds is the answer... Ha ha ha!!!
    Actually, that is an option. There are (at least) five bodies that delivers better IQ than any 4/3 body out there - Olympus E-M5, E-PL5, E-PM2 and Panasonic G5 and GH3.

    The new Panasonic GH3 has a sensor that is as good as the one in OM-D EM-5 & Co. The G5 is somewhere between an E-5 and E-M5 in performance.

    Handling-wise, the GH3 is way better than the rest; it is as good in the hand as the E-30.

    The only question, is the AF good enough for the lawn-mower race? It's going to be better than any Fuji body; but not as good as the E-3.

    By the way, this post shows the problem with this site; most of us are abandoning 4/3. I have bought into -4/3 when I need to stay compact (replacing the E-420 + 25mm f/2.8); but are still undecided on what to replace the E-30 with ... Currently my options are Canon 6D, Nikon D600 or Panasonic GH3 ... I don't shoot action, so Fuji X-E1 should probably be on the list too.

    Fuji will be releasing a 55-200mm zoom at some time - it's on the roadmap. Late 2013 or early 2014, I believe.
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Of course you all know me, it's just like a bunch of old friends chatting away - and that's why this forum is what it is - focus for lawn mower races! I just pan the 70-300 at a machine so in a way its a static subject and press the shutter when the red light pops - sure sometimes the poor old lens goes crazy but I get enough keepers to keep everyone happy - I've even managed zone focusing the M8 and getting sparkling results - but now we start to get to the pointy end of my dilemma.

    Am I crazy even thinking of ditching the Leica which really does have some magic - and I mean magic - forget all the detractors, on a good day it just make images that pop like nothing else but........................Fuji colour is far more truthful, modern and from I've seen got it's own very engaging pop.

    Lawn mower racing is a one day event - taking snaps of sculptures is bread and butter.

    Nice to chat again - all the best Clive

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Ditching the Leica is probably a bad idea; but is it the camera or the lenses that give you that magic? If it is the lenses, you can use them on -4/3 bodies and Fuji X bodies with adapters.

    One thing to note, if you are thinking about Fuji X-Pro 1 (or X-E1), is that the sensor design is very different from the X100, so few apps support the fileformat. And Adobe (Camera Raw and Lightroom) is struggling to get the most out of the files - Fuji and Adobe is working on it though.
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsi42 View Post
    Actually, that is an option. There are (at least) five bodies that delivers better IQ than any 4/3 body out there - Olympus E-M5, E-PL5, E-PM2 and Panasonic G5 and GH3.
    And the problem with all of them for me is that they're EVF cameras. There are those of us that, for a variety of reasons, the EVF just isn't a good full-time solution. I value the EVF on my X-Pro1 as a work-around solution similar to the Leica Visoflex housings; it gets the job done when the OVF can't, but it's not something I want to use all of the time. I wouldn't buy an X-E1. I just don't have a use for it for that reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by tomsi42 View Post
    Ditching the Leica is probably a bad idea; but is it the camera or the lenses that give you that magic? If it is the lenses, you can use them on -4/3 bodies and Fuji X bodies with adapters.

    One thing to note, if you are thinking about Fuji X-Pro 1 (or X-E1), is that the sensor design is very different from the X100, so few apps support the fileformat. And Adobe (Camera Raw and Lightroom) is struggling to get the most out of the files - Fuji and Adobe is working on it though.
    I have to agree that ditching the M8 is a bad idea; at least until you figure out whether or not the X-Pro1 is your answer. And I've bought and sold several sets of M mount lenses over the years... and regret selling them every time I do it. I wish now that I'd kept my last set.

    As far as the file handling... for 99% of what I shoot, the OOC .jpgs are better than what I can develop out of RAW. They're just that good... and even when there is a chance that I can pull something better out of RAW, it takes a LOT of work to best the .jpg. The X-Pro1 isn't perfect... I mentioned the low-light focus issues. I have the 18mm and 35mm Fuji lenses currently, and I'm using old LTM FSU 50mm and 85mm lenses with adapters for my "longer" glass. If I keep the X-Pro1 I'll probably invest in the newer 54mm f/1.something or other that is supposed to be released next year rather than the current 60mm macro.

    All that said, if I could afford an M9-P and current Leitz glass I'd jump ship from the Fuji in a heartbeat.
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Interesting. While I am impressed with the temptation of the m43 OMD and EPL5, I don't own either so can't comment on that. But I do own an E-3 and both the 70-300 and the 50-200 mk1, and would like to comment. Since I bought the 50-200, I hardly ever use the 70-300. The 50-200 is so much better than the 70-300. Much faster and sharper. The E-3 is a much better camera when using the 50-200; it almost like shooting with a different camera.
    Steven R
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    E-330, E-520, E-3

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Great calm and reasonable analysis of my imagined dilemma, Tomsi - I had a bad experience with m43, I got an EPL1 some time back and although it took great looking pics and with the M mount lenses, I felt that Oly were doing some pretty heavy stuff in the internal processing that, to my eye at least, made an image look superficially great but was full of smudges and watercolour style bits when put under the microscope - fortunately my brother-in-law who thinks I have a camera shop, needed a new camera so I sold him EPL1 twin lens kit and he thinks its the best thing since sliced bread.

    It is interesting particularly over on the Fuji forum that no one has really got behind the XP1 like you guys do for 43s & m43s, a similar thread on the Leica M8 forum was so pro Leica that the guy who posted the thread, instantly went out and got a used M8 (and started investing in M glass) instead of the new Fuji.

    If I asked here for links to 43 action or motor sport pics I'm sure there would be more than enough but again over on Fuji not one - interesting - maybe I should ask for links to 50-200 action/sport

    I'm beginning to sober up on this flurry into substantially changing my gear - all caused by seeing that 70-300 really does look pretty soft these days.

    Hmm M9 - yes indeed Roger - maybe we should all wait and see what the new Leica M can do!! and pretend that we may be able to afford it.

    Thanks again - Clive

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven R View Post
    Interesting. While I am impressed with the temptation of the m43 OMD and EPL5, I don't own either so can't comment on that. But I do own an E-3 and both the 70-300 and the 50-200 mk1, and would like to comment. Since I bought the 50-200, I hardly ever use the 70-300. The 50-200 is so much better than the 70-300. Much faster and sharper. The E-3 is a much better camera when using the 50-200; it almost like shooting with a different camera.
    Got any hand held 50-200 action shots Steven? - this looking like the most reasonable answer!

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Sell out and get a Sony a99 or Nikon D800.


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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmonaut View Post
    Sell out and get a Sony a99 or Nikon D800.
    Now, that would be a "sell out"

    I wouldn't recommend either of those cameras for someone who is using Leica and Fuji X100 - it's two different planets.
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Good one Cosmo, 800 or 800e

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfa View Post

    It is interesting particularly over on the Fuji forum that no one has really got behind the XP1 like you guys do for 43s & m43s, a similar thread on the Leica M8 forum was so pro Leica that the guy who posted the thread, instantly went out and got a used M8 (and started investing in M glass) instead of the new Fuji.

    If I asked here for links to 43 action or motor sport pics I'm sure there would be more than enough but again over on Fuji not one - interesting - maybe I should ask for links to 50-200 action/sport

    I'm beginning to sober up on this flurry into substantially changing my gear -

    Hmm M9 - yes indeed Roger - maybe we should all wait and see what the new Leica M can do!! and pretend that we may be able to afford it.

    Thanks again - Clive
    Clive, the X-Pro1 isn't a "sports" setup; neither typically is the Leica M. Not that they can't do it, they're just not the best tools. They excel in other areas tho. And regarding the "sports" shots, remember that the X-Pro1 has only been out less than a year, so there are only a few thousand on the street vs. the huge numbers of 4/3rds and m4/3rds cameras sold.

    If I had to shoot motorsports with the M cameras or the X-Pro1 I'd come back with saleable images... but my shooting style would differ greatly from how I shoot with a DSLR and a long tele. As a matter of fact, when I was a kid in the early '70s, I shot stock car races using a Canon IIf LTM rangefinder and ASA 200 negative film under the lights. I sold a LOT of prints, and it CAN be done... it just isn't easy.

    I'd vote for the 50-200 on the E3 also. Frankly though, if you only shoot it once a year, and your current setup has worked in the past... the NO cash solution is to continue shooting the same way.

    Roger
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Thought I should do a quick test!! on the left M8 + Voigtlander Ultron 28/2 = 35mm V on the right Fuji X100 23/2 = 35mm, thing to note here is the Voigtlander lens isn't the sexiest thing you can use on an M8 just selected because its equiv to the Fuji but the results are quite interesting to me at least.............

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think I've just talked myself out buying anything

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    There ya go.
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    G'day Mr Bradley - I've been keeping an eye on your deliberations about Pentax (I think) - great exercise doing a head to head 100% or thereabouts crop - I really thought the X100 was going to win easily - it looks much better on the screen - very deceiving. The other wild revelation was the Leica was far easier to use in this situation - I feel very good about this - have great day

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    The breakthough in this quest is solely due to Cosmo for suggesting sell everything and get a Nikon D800 so I did a bit of a search and found someone claiming that it was so good that it made medium format digital obsolete!! Yep D800 V 60MP Hasselblad, what really got me going was that to my eye, at least, the Hassy was 20x better than the Nikon but the reviewer was claiming the exact opposite!!

    People bag Leicas everyday and suggest all too often that they are little more than a fashion statement, I'd been so encouraged by the results of X100 that I felt the XP1 may blow the old Leica out of the water - head to head showed otherwise.

    Yes Daniel - it is an exceptionally beautiful lump of marble that one - it is also extremely hard to photograph because it is very translucent and almost appears to store light, it invariably confuses light meters.

    I've been taught this lesson so many times with the M8 that I really shouldn't keep thinking that there's much around that can touch it. You all have a great day

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    If possible, try out before you buy anything. I have been lucky to try out the Olmypus OM-D, Nikon D600 and Panasonic GH3 for a few hours this fall, and I found that I learned more about the cameras than all the tests I have read. I am hoping to get som time with the Canon 6D and one of the Fuji's (X Pro1/EX-1) before I decide on what I shall replace the E-30 with.
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfa View Post

    People bag Leicas everyday and suggest all too often that they are little more than a fashion statement, I'd been so encouraged by the results of X100 that I felt the XP1 may blow the old Leica out of the water - head to head showed otherwise.

    I've been taught this lesson so many times with the M8 that I really shouldn't keep thinking that there's much around that can touch it. You all have a great day
    Y'know Clive that was an interesting comparison with the M8 vs the X100, but the X-Pro1 has a completely different sensor and optics. I sure wish that someone were near enough to you with an X-Pro1 that you could replicate that comparison using all three bodies. THAT would be interesting, and telling.
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    I agree - a friend came round with an M8 some time back and we pointed it a few sculptures - the results blew me away so I kept an eye on eBay an accidentally got mine very cheaply, must just have been one of those days - I'm terrified about trying the same exercise with an M9-p that another friend has just in case its heaps better!! and then .. there's the new M which if it even goes close to doing what Leica is claiming I'll be sort of hoping that large piles of spare cash don't come my way!

    The thing that really worries me these days is that I sense that the manufacturers have become very adept at electronically massaging results in camera to look really good, sort of smoke and mirrors stuff that automatically presumes that we all want that result - its great most of the time, X100 being a good example but ask it to do something that Fuji hasn't prioritised you start to see what's going on. I even felt the same thing was happening looking at D800 when Cosmo suggested it.

    I think I'd like a camera system that had a dedicated "honest" picture mode.

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Yes Roger taking snaps of bits of marble is a pretty minority exercise - it would be nice if all the manufacturers' reps came trotting down to my place to see how their gear handled the problem. Maybe I could start a competition "Clive's annual marble shoot out" I keep the system that wins and the manufacturer gets the kudos - in my dreams eh!

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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfa View Post
    I agree - a friend came round with an M8 some time back and we pointed it a few sculptures - the results blew me away so I kept an eye on eBay an accidentally got mine very cheaply, must just have been one of those days - I'm terrified about trying the same exercise with an M9-p that another friend has just in case its heaps better!! and then .. there's the new M which if it even goes close to doing what Leica is claiming I'll be sort of hoping that large piles of spare cash don't come my way!

    The thing that really worries me these days is that I sense that the manufacturers have become very adept at electronically massaging results in camera to look really good, sort of smoke and mirrors stuff that automatically presumes that we all want that result - its great most of the time, X100 being a good example but ask it to do something that Fuji hasn't prioritised you start to see what's going on. I even felt the same thing was happening looking at D800 when Cosmo suggested it.

    I think I'd like a camera system that had a dedicated "honest" picture mode.
    I am a KISS kind of guy. One of the things I loved about the Olympus E1 was it's simple interface. The things that needed to be set could be set, but it had little else to be confusing or to screw up.

    One of the issues that I have with the X-Pro1 is that it is too configurable for my taste... that may sound a little odd, but you can literally tailor it to the nth degree for your image. There is no "honest" image... your image is what you want it to be. It has sharpness, dynamic range settings, floating ISO, and a ton of other things that I just really have little need for. Now, that said I don't HAVE to use any of those settings... they all have defaults, but merely having them infers that there is tweaking to be done to get the camera dialed in perfectly.... whatever "perfectly" means. Actually the camera does an amazing job with it's default settings, but I can't help but wonder why all that needs to be configurable. I guess that's what make a .jpg a .jpg.

    My biggest challenge remains the autofocus system. It, too, is highly configurable for a number of parameters and I find I just don't have the tolerance for the techie tweaking any more. I want to pick the body up, set the things necessary to make the exposure, turn the lens a little to get the focus on the plane I want and release the shutter. I find with the X-Pro1 that way back in in the back of my mind, sometimes there seem to just be too many configurable things that need to be dealt with, but the images it produces are truly stunning.
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Vaguely a Fourthirds Photo question!

    It is a good idea not to try the M9; it is supposedly much better than the M8.
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