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Thread: 43rds is gone

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    Default 43rds is gone

    Quesabeside are saying that there will be no E7
    that the next camera suitable for 43rds will be a hybrid

    Google Traduttore

    from 43rumors
    HOT!!! Olympus surprise: We will do the hybrid FT and MFT camera by end 2013! No classic FT E-7 camera anymore! | 43 Rumors
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    I just saw this too. Mixed feelings, but given what it is, I just hope they do it right. Given that it's mFT, let it be a GH3 killer, a top-end video machine as well (you can ignore those features if you don't use it). They better not skimp on the software, like they did with the E-M5, holding back on a worldwide standard 24p mode, and disappointing those in Europe with lack of 25p/50i.
    -Mark
    E-PL2 | WCON-07 | 14mm F2.5 | 20mm F1.7 | Pentax 25mm F1.4 | 35mm F1.7 c-mount | FL-50 | MA1 | SEMA-1

    OM-2n | 28mm F3.5 | 50mm F1.4 | 135mm F3.5 | Sigma 600mm F8 | T-20 | 2x Vivitar 2800

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Yeah I understand the mixed feelings, some stuff to let go off
    and you are dead right about video 25p
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    Looks like time to bail out.
    thats your choice but Im a bit more optimistic

    having a body that can carry both lenses, AF with both, will bring a lot more to the capability, some things that were always missing from 43rds.
    MFT offers a wide variety of very good primes, and 43rds covers the need for zooms that mFT just doesnt seem to cater for in the same way.
    Instantly it gets access to lenses like 75/1.8, a cheaper PL 25/1.4, the 45/1.8, a variety of 12-20mm pancakes, and not forgetting f/0.095 primes
    Riley

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    Looks like time to bail out.
    Yup. I have no idea what system it might be yet. Luckily, my e3 still has a few more clicks to go on the shutter and I don't have a large investment in really good FT glass. My FT system will still serve as an alternative giving the reach that a FF can't manage. When the e3 packs it in, I'll probably buy a Panasonic like the GH3 or whatever the new one is then.

    It's not like we weren't expecting this, but it is a sad day.
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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    I'd say I'm in, but it really depends on the price of the beast. I bought my E-620 for $600 a couple of years ago. I'd be willing to pay $1000 for a m4/3 and 4/3 hybrid camera. However, if this beasty sells for the same as 4/3 flagships have sold (around $1700) then I guess this is officially the end of 4/3 for me.
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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    Looks like time to bail out.
    I made that decision after Photokina. The problem is where to go ...
    flickr | "God made the integers; all else is the work of man" - Leopold Kronecker

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmunds View Post
    I'd say I'm in, but it really depends on the price of the beast. I bought my E-620 for $600 a couple of years ago. I'd be willing to pay $1000 for a m4/3 and 4/3 hybrid camera. However, if this beasty sells for the same as 4/3 flagships have sold (around $1700) then I guess this is officially the end of 4/3 for me.
    with FF getting cheaper all the time, they cant hit people too much
    Im amazed they make money on OMD at the $750 theyve been offering them at over recent days
    it makes GH3 look kinda steep, but then GH2 was pretty wildly priced too

    If I had to guess, I would think its within those marks of $1,000 to $1,300, but its only a guess
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsi42 View Post
    I made that decision after Photokina. The problem is where to go ...
    hey been there
    I never found anything else I was happy with, you guys might be luckier

    I just had a classical concert shoot with E5 GH2 and 5D
    E5 was way out of its range for performances due to shadow noise,
    5D was on the limit at f/4 ISO3200 1/30th sec 180mm, a bit better wide open f/2.8 ISO 1600 50mm
    GH2 did it easy at f/2 ISO2000 with nice hand holdable shutter speeds but it was manual focus on a Konica 40/1.8 prime

    I guess I felt a little cramped for fast glass which I dont carry for what I do
    5D files came up alight despite ISO 3200, but it has this propensity for green asian skin colour that is so difficult to correct

    A PL 25/1.4 would give me a few extra stops from 5D and yet not lose DoF, already somewhat problematical
    an EM5 would give me another stop over GH2 as its noise performance is clearly better

    I can kinda live with how GH2 shoots, well almost, but I find 5D really an awkward interface, but each to their own I guess
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    At last. The King is dead. Long live the New King :-) . Now speculation time is over. I think this is great news.

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Here's what I see in the crystal ball. The new 4/3 - m4/3 hybrid is going to be an E-5 level replacement. There's no point to Oly to resurrect the E-xxx line, that target group is covered by m4/3. Oly will be going after people who love the SHG glass but for whom the E-5 is getting pretty long in the tooth. It certainly won't cost less than the E-5. I expect the body form will be a little larger than the E-M5 (there has been a lot of negative feedback that it's a bit too small for some folks) but with a similar form factor. Full 4/3 lenses will attach to the new body using an adapter combo of an lens adapter and an AF module incorporated into a grip rather like the E-M5 grip, with AF modules in the base, and the option to attach a battery below that (similar to the E-M5 grip). What I'm not sure of is whether the VF will be hybrid OVF/EVF like the Fuji or if Oly will go all-in with an EVF like the Sony A99. Anyway, you read it here first, folks.
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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    I still dont get why they cant make a full sized body, even if the guts are all the same as their next micro 4/3rds, wouldnt require anything but making a body to put it into, and maybe some more dedicated buttons wiring, I am sure the price they would charge would more than make up for that cost..While I like the IQ of the EM5 I can not even hold it steady hand held with one of the long lenses, shooting birds is near impossible with focus time.. let alone be sure I even am in focus.. of course I just bought a 150 F2 just in time for this.. should be lots of good glass for sale soon I think.. although they really dont say much other than its a camera that will take full advantage of 4/rds glass.. even if its mirroless I still want a normal size body with some heft and buttons I can get to without having to fumble with.. oh well I have E3 and E5, I can use till they die and wont fix anymore I suppose the grip may help, but crap if they just make a normal body I don't need a grip

    do you think they will ever be able to make as good a HG or SHG lens for m4/3rds as they do now for 4/3rds?
    OMD EM-1, m12-50MM, OLY 12-60MM, OLY 50MM macro, EC-14, Nikon D7200 and D7100, Nikon 300MM F4 PF Nikon 1.4X II Nikon 80-400MM AF-S- G, Sigma 150-600MM C, Sigma 17-50MM
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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    Every time I pick up an OM-D and look into that mini TV viewfinder and watch it flicker and jump around when I move the camera or half press the shutter I feel there is no way I would be able to be happy with it. Then I pick up a D7000 and look through..... aaaaahhh...night and day.
    That is my one argument against mFT. I've never been happy without an OVF.

    As far as pricing goes, I'd be willing to pay a lot in order to get a lot, but I'm afraid they will never offer enough in one camera. It's still hard to beat the used price of a 5D2 for a good stills and (proper) video camera with an OVF. Oh wait, it's the only one. This new Olympus needs to be cheaper than that. I think under $1500 for sure, ideally as close to $1000 as possible.
    -Mark
    E-PL2 | WCON-07 | 14mm F2.5 | 20mm F1.7 | Pentax 25mm F1.4 | 35mm F1.7 c-mount | FL-50 | MA1 | SEMA-1

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by olddigiman View Post
    Here's what I see in the crystal ball. The new 4/3 - m4/3 hybrid is going to be an E-5 level replacement. There's no point to Oly to resurrect the E-xxx line, that target group is covered by m4/3. Oly will be going after people who love the SHG glass but for whom the E-5 is getting pretty long in the tooth. It certainly won't cost less than the E-5. I expect the body form will be a little larger than the E-M5 (there has been a lot of negative feedback that it's a bit too small for some folks) but with a similar form factor. Full 4/3 lenses will attach to the new body using an adapter combo of an lens adapter and an AF module incorporated into a grip rather like the E-M5 grip, with AF modules in the base, and the option to attach a battery below that (similar to the E-M5 grip). What I'm not sure of is whether the VF will be hybrid OVF/EVF like the Fuji or if Oly will go all-in with an EVF like the Sony A99. Anyway, you read it here first, folks.
    thing one
    we know its not an adapter, because that wouldn't require a so-called hybrid camera, an adapter would work on anything

    thing two
    in order to pass light around a mFT 'mirrorbox', or that hollow space between the sensor and the lens mount, they need a mirror in there somewhere. Well thats going to be a problem because the mount down to the surface of the electrical pins takes 5 mm, and the distance from the filter stack to the outside of the same mount is 12mm. Given you've got a 20mm register (lensmount to sensor surface distance) at 45 degrees you only have 7mm to fit a diagonal 13mm mirror in (9.1mm), but guess what its actually less than that because you still had to put a shutter mechanism in there between the sensor stack and the the electrical pins.

    In other words, you cant phase detect AF like an SLR with a mirror,
    you cant fit a translucent mirror like an SLT,
    in fact you pretty much cant do anything useful in there its just to darned small.

    the only remaining solution I see is to phase detect off the sensor, which is pretty much what we have been hearing by way of patents for some time. Now maybe you guys are smarter than me and can figure out some other way, in which case Im all ears, and to help you out...

    heres a crossection OMD I borrowed from PK images

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Riley; 12-20-2012 at 10:22 AM.
    Riley

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    figure out some other way, in which case Im all ears
    Not that I'm smarter (you'll prove me wrong shortly...) but here's a thought.

    Picture an E-PL5 (or E-PL2/similar). Imagine a mount adapter that does not need to rotate into place, but through some other mechanism can clip on. Imagine this ring to have an SLT mirror of sorts inside it, which protrudes backwards to use existing space between the mFT mount and the shutter. This ring could have a penta-mirror on top of it, and an extended piece going to an OVF on which sits on top of the camera. In short this odd-shaped chunk would clip onto the top and front of the camera and use the entire (13mm?) depth to fit it's mechanism for PDAF and an optical path. Add a modular side and bottom/battery grip, and you have something that is modular enough to convert between E-PL5 sized and E-5 sized. Perhaps picture it like an E-5 shell that you can un-clip a pocket sized mFT core camera from. Impossible? Maybe, maybe not.
    -Mark
    E-PL2 | WCON-07 | 14mm F2.5 | 20mm F1.7 | Pentax 25mm F1.4 | 35mm F1.7 c-mount | FL-50 | MA1 | SEMA-1

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by thebinaryman View Post
    Not that I'm smarter (you'll prove me wrong shortly...) but here's a thought.

    Picture an E-PL5 (or E-PL2/similar). Imagine a mount adapter that does not need to rotate into place, but through some other mechanism can clip on. Imagine this ring to have an SLT mirror of sorts inside it, which protrudes backwards to use existing space between the mFT mount and the shutter. This ring could have a penta-mirror on top of it, and an extended piece going to an OVF on which sits on top of the camera. In short this odd-shaped chunk would clip onto the top and front of the camera and use the entire (13mm?) depth to fit it's mechanism for PDAF and an optical path. Add a modular side and bottom/battery grip, and you have something that is modular enough to convert between E-PL5 sized and E-5 sized. Perhaps picture it like an E-5 shell that you can un-clip a pocket sized mFT core camera from. Impossible? Maybe, maybe not.
    something like this has been done before for Leica's M using Leica R (SLR) glass

    but what they appear to be talking about is a camera, not an adaptor device
    Riley

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    I don't see how it will be a low/moderate price.
    It will be for a relatively small "captive" market, so the development cost per unit will be high.
    If they are making no more 4/3 lenses, it will be a dwindling market. 4/3 lenses will become rare and an expensive niche
    Don

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    with FF getting cheaper all the time, they cant hit people too much
    Im amazed they make money on OMD at the $750 theyve been offering them at over recent days
    it makes GH3 look kinda steep, but then GH2 was pretty wildly priced too

    If I had to guess, I would think its within those marks of $1,000 to $1,300, but its only a guess
    That was an advertising mistake, but to their credit they honored those who got in early orders.
    Don

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Baldwinson View Post
    I don't see how it will be a low/moderate price.
    It will be for a relatively small "captive" market, so the development cost per unit will be high.
    If they are making no more 4/3 lenses, it will be a dwindling market. 4/3 lenses will become rare and an expensive niche
    Don
    Unless they are going to continue making HG and SHG glass, there doesn't seem to be a point to the whole exercise. Making a camera that will use the legacy glass that I already own doesn't help them sell more glass, 'cause I'm not buying any more of it. The one thing it does do is to get me moving towards the mFT system. Not going there, either in discussion or reality. Cameras are just tools to get a job done, craftspeople choose tools that they feel comfortable with and don't fight their way of pursuing the craft. Other makers have good cameras and good lenses (when you compare like to like) for some of us, it's just time to move on, either by adding another system to what we have or switching outright.
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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    with FF getting cheaper all the time, they cant hit people too much
    Im amazed they make money on OMD at the $750 theyve been offering them at over recent days
    it makes GH3 look kinda steep, but then GH2 was pretty wildly priced too

    If I had to guess, I would think its within those marks of $1,000 to $1,300, but its only a guess
    Yep, I doubt it'll be over $1300 as well.

    In order to produce a prototype, get all parts supplied and made and put together an assembly line there are significant fixed costs. I seriously doubt they can sell enough to cover those with a $1700 price tag, and I'm sure somebody at Olympus is thinking about this as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    4/3 has so much going for it and the reasons I bought into it are the same reasons I want to stay with it, BUT....
    Every time I pick up an OM-D and look into that mini TV viewfinder and watch it flicker and jump around when I move the camera or half press the shutter I feel there is no way I would be able to be happy with it. Then I pick up a D7000 and look through..... aaaaahhh...night and day. And I am not even talking about FF. I don't want FF.
    I have looked at everything in the last months, Nikon, Canon, Sony, Pentax....you name it. All have their advantages and their disadvantages. But for me, Oly has, or should I say, had it all.
    I feel the same way about the EVF.

    I bought a Fuji X100 as I needed something for low light stuff, especially given the winter and all. You can't compare the EVF with the OVF, I tried to use the EVF a few times but its just not there yet. I think we're still a few years away.
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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by davidh202 View Post
    This is still only a rumor until Oly makes an official announcement
    The Olympus Manager for Spain announced this. If we cannot trust him, he shouldn't make such statements, and it reflects badly on the company.
    -Mark
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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Here we go again.

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by saburns View Post
    Here we go again.
    Yup. I still like my E-1. Still use it too.

    The world has changed in the decade and some since FourThirds was conceived, it's only right that Olympus moves forwards.
    I have confidence that Olympus' superb optical knowledge and their always-excellent pro-grade bodies will remain, regardless of whether they make cameras with flippy mirrors or not.

    G

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    Agree with you completely. My comment wasn't referring to change (I like change ) but to the type of email thread where everyone tries to second guess what Olympus will do (pointless IMHO since you will probably be wrong) or complain because Olympus doesn't do what they want them to. I'll just wait until there is solid information about what is coming and then decide if it is something I need or want. My opinion is not going to change Olympus' direction anyway. I don't have that type of financial clout.

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    Default Re: 43rds is gone

    I think we really still do not know. I found this on reading further.

    Olympus President Haruo Ogawa has been interviewed by Imaging Resource (Click here). When asked about the E-5 successor he said: “We are considering several different ideas for a body that would accept Four Thirds lenses, but would also have on an acceptably compact size. At this moment, we cannot say anything for sure, because there are many possibilities — it could be Micro Four Thirds, or Four Thirds, or somehow a hybrid
    Mike C
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