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Thread: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

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    Default I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    This post is kind of the opposite of the "Grass is not always greener on the other side" post. I want two worlds I guess you could say are on different sides of the fence, and just as green on both sides.

    When Olympus stated they were pretty much done with making DSLRs I moved on to Nikon with a D700, D800, and D7100 and pro glass. Recently I had some gear stolen and I'm kinda rethinking what I'm doing. Some background…

    In the 90s I broke from photography, a lot of that choice had to do with how much gear and weight I had to carry to achieve what I wanted/needed. In 2007 I returned to photography by buying some gear that was small, light, and quality gear for a hobbyist the E-410. Before long I upgraded to the E-30 and a few HG lenses. Great gear and I was also moving back into professional photography, so I was looking for more when the demise of the Olympus DSLR was announced, hence the Nikon gear.

    I have learned to split my professional and personal photography, and want gear to support both. The m4/3 gear for personal use seems like it may have approached what I would enjoy.

    But as time goes on I stay as confused as ever about what Olympus is doing and I wonder if buying into the m4/3 is the way to go? I think I want to buy an OMD EM-5 and maybe some Olympus primes or Panasonic zooms.

    I live in the San Diego California area with over 40 incorporated, non incorporated areas, cities and towns. Over 3 million people live here. Yet after searching high and low, and up to 70 miles north of here (probably includes a population of over 4 million folks); I cannot find one store that has or will carry a OMD EM-5, and the pro shops have no intent of carrying Olympus at all. What is Olympus doing? Four million people and no point of sale????

    Then tonight I also saw a post that Quantum has produced a Copilot that is compatible with Lumix cameras (hence Olympus). This would be big for me. Yet I can only find one video about the new Copilot. Where is Olympus in this endeavor? Why is there no more about it?

    Olympus makes great gear, but the lack of point of sales and third party support (accessories) for the gear and users really makes me wonder if I would be jumping back into a similar situation as before.

    I really want my cake and be able to it too! Since I can't find the gear ( I do not want to mail order this gear) I will hang onto my money and wait and see what transpires this year?
    Clint
    OM-D EM-1 | 7-14mm | 12-40mm | 12-60mm | 35-100mm | 50-200mm | 100-400mm | 12mm | 25mm f/1.4 | 45mm f/1.8 | 75mm f/1.8 | FL-600R | FL-50R |

    Shooting since 1964

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Interesting.
    Here in Auckland, New Zealand, where Olympus has had no presence at all except P&S (my E-3 was delivered to my doorstep by the importer on his way home one night, nothing on retail shelves); but now the shelves in retail stores, high and low end are well represented by OM-D.
    Incidentally, the local importer was sacked and the stock now comes from Australia, so the retail interest is even more surprising.
    But I will wait until later in the year to see what arrives, I live in hope. Going to be a hard decision though, because I get on very well with my Canon gear. Green grass both sides of the fence if you have an open mind
    Cheers,
    Don

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Olympus has a good presence here in Norway. The OM-D is on display in the major Photo-shops.

    Regarding the Quantum CoPilot; I don't see any mention of Panasonic or Lumix on their site; is this a future model?
    flickr | "God made the integers; all else is the work of man" - Leopold Kronecker

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    I am still in the process of finding of which shades of green that I should pursue

    If the rumor sites are anything to go by; April should be an interesting month for -4/3.
    flickr | "God made the integers; all else is the work of man" - Leopold Kronecker

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    "Green grass both sides of the fence if you have an open mind "
    Best to just tear down the fence....
    I sit on the fence, which is why I have a crack in my.....well you get the picture I guess

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Personally, I have given up on 4/3; Olympus has mistreated the platform so long that I don't think they will be able to revive it.

    There have been plenty sun here for a long time; but it is still freezing cold ...
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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Well, then i say there must not be any Oly dealers in the entire state of California then! I live right in the middle of the valley north of the grapevine. I could not find any and i looked between Sacramento & Bakersfield. Maybe a dealer up north in the bay area might sell Oly but i doubt it. It sure Makes holding a body in your hand to see how it fits difficult. The only dealer here in Fresno that sold Oly closed down 2 years ago.
    Olympus You need to get your cameras in the stores!!!! Oh well good thing I like to shop online.......
    Mike


    I have color vision deficiency so let me know if I screw it up...

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsi42 View Post
    Personally, I have given up on 4/3; Olympus has mistreated the platform so long that I don't think they will be able to revive it.
    I gave up on 4/3 in mid-2011 when the Olympus USA service manager admitted to me (!) that they could not get two different Zuiko 35-100mm f/2 zooms to focus consistently and reliably on two different E-5 bodies. He called the focus motors in the 35-100mm "old technology" and literally gave up; I was stuck. IIRC, I commented here as early as 2009 that Olympus was apparently producing only SG lenses any more, and I was correct. So, I too believe Olympus cannot and will not revive classic 4/3. One new 4/3 body or hybrid body is not a revival either.

    I liquidated my entire classic 4/3 kit. I'm rather happy now with my E-PL5 and my four prime lenses; I don't own a kit zoom. Even my first generation M.Zuiko 75-300mm is a rather nice lens on the E-PL5. I'm eyeing that 75mm f/1.8. Some say it's optically as good as the 150mm f/2. The future is m4/3 if you like Olympus.
    Last edited by James Pilcher; 04-08-2013 at 10:23 AM. Reason: clarity
    Regards,

    Jim Pilcher
    Summit County, Colorado, USA

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidh202 View Post
    I am predicting a late October -November announcement for the new 4/3 flagship! My gut feeling is, it's going to innovative, and really good, and the people who had HG and SHG glass and jumped ship, are going to be sorry they did.
    You may be correct. I wish you HG and SHG glass owners all the best. The classic 4/3 ship sailed on me long ago. Any move on my part back to a DSLR will likely be a Nikon FX camera, such as the D600. I am an avid Olympus m4/3 user though.
    Regards,

    Jim Pilcher
    Summit County, Colorado, USA

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    Default cake and to eat it too - a contradiction and the glass half empty

    Olympus OM-D EM-5 is available from Samy's Camera. They have a store in Santa Ana, CA in Orange County just an hour north of you. The easiest way to get Olympus gear is on line. I'm not familiar with camera stores in San Diego so it's difficult for me to search for an OM-D down your way.

    Olympus never said they were done making DSLRs. In fact they've said there will be a new DSLR by the end of this year to accommodate SHG and HG lenses with an optical viewfinder. The February announcement hints at an E-7 style DSLR upgrade.

    There's no indication Olympus has stopped making or selling 4/3 SHG and HG lenses. There's every indication that there are plenty to be had, new and recconditioned. The used market for these great lenses has dried up while people wait for the new release. See a thread here about why the Buy/Sell forum is so quiet lately.

    The next Olympus camera will not be a hybrid m4/3 or a pro m4/3 that replaces the OM-D EM-5. That would be foolish marketing to upgrade a camera that is recognized as a top MILC and that is selling well. Olympus is not going to throw away that development, marketing and good press. Given the lens set-back or mount to sensor distance of m4/3 versus 4/3, and the cost and size constraints of producing an adapter with PDAF or a mirror, it's unlikely there will ever be a hybrid.

    People who have the m4/3 75 mm f/1.8 lens and the 4/3 SHG 150 mm f/2 say that while the 75 mm is a super lens, it does not compare to the 150 mm SHG lens. See dpreview Olympus SLR Talk for a recent thread with real world, practical experience using both lenses.

    You guys posting here all empitomize the glass half empty crowd. No faith and no foresight. What tea leaves are you guys reading? There's lots of real indicators of what is really coming from Olympus.
    Dave in So Cal

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidh202 View Post
    I am predicting a late October -November announcement for the new 4/3 flagship! My gut feeling is, it's going to innovative, and really good, and the people who had HG and SHG glass and jumped ship, are going to be sorry they did.

    David
    I bet the farm on this very fact. The Pentax K-5 I had was a great camera but the lens lineup didn't work for me. I came back because of this frustration AND the fact that HG glass prices seem to be depressed right now.

    All used:

    50-200 - $440 shipped.
    50 Macro - $260 shipped.
    14-54MkI - $220 shipped.
    FL-50 - $100 shipped (after $50 eBay certificate).
    EC-14 - $250 shipped.
    E-5 - $945 shipped.

    Aside from the E-5 which is obscenely priced (no reflection on seller, only the market), I think those are stellar prices for the quality of the lenses. If my betting the farm is correct and I can put these lenses in front of a great new body I'm gonna be a happy camper (not that I won't be with the E-5 either).

    Now, the big question is, what will those prices look like in November if we have an announcement in October?
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    Default Re: cake and to eat it too - a contradiction and the glass half empty

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark View Post
    Olympus OM-D EM-5 is available from Samy's Camera. They have a store in Santa Ana, CA in Orange County just an hour north of you. The easiest way to get Olympus gear is on line. I'm not familiar with camera stores in San Diego so it's difficult for me to search for an OM-D down your way.

    Olympus never said they were done making DSLRs. In fact they've said there will be a new DSLR by the end of this year to accommodate SHG and HG lenses with an optical viewfinder. The February announcement hints at an E-7 style DSLR upgrade.

    There's no indication Olympus has stopped making or selling 4/3 SHG and HG lenses. There's every indication that there are plenty to be had, new and recconditioned. The used market for these great lenses has dried up while people wait for the new release. See a thread here about why the Buy/Sell forum is so quiet lately.
    slow movement isnt a good sign, rather dull trade means all those people taking positions on go-or-stay have already done so
    but it doesnt sound like theres an awful lot of them


    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    The next Olympus camera will not be a hybrid m4/3 or a pro m4/3 that replaces the OM-D EM-5. That would be foolish marketing to upgrade a camera that is recognized as a top MILC and that is selling well. Olympus is not going to throw away that development, marketing and good press. Given the lens set-back or mount to sensor distance of m4/3 versus 4/3, and the cost and size constraints of producing an adapter with PDAF or a mirror, it's unlikely there will ever be a hybrid.
    seriously these people need to get their act together,
    theres an entire format here going wanting over some 'politically' inspired move within Olympus that in the scheme of things makes zero sense
    its been plain for some time that mirrorless is just the ticket for some, but completely unsuitable for others
    thevve given m43 their best for 5 years and they still running at a loss
    put some effort into SLRs again and rebalance the marketing situation
    then finally,they can trade in both places at once
    just like everyone else does


    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    People who have the m4/3 75 mm f/1.8 lens and the 4/3 SHG 150 mm f/2 say that while the 75 mm is a super lens, it does not compare to the 150 mm SHG lens. See dpreview Olympus SLR Talk for a recent thread with real world, practical experience using both lenses.

    You guys posting here all empitomize the glass half empty crowd. No faith and no foresight. What tea leaves are you guys reading? There's lots of real indicators of what is really coming from Olympus.
    I take some exception to this
    once upon a time there was a lot of talk going on here about 'naysayers' and what have you
    well now I look around and at least half of those guys quietly bailed out for alternatives

    and dont suppose 'indicators' replaces plain speaking with translated Swahili
    this is the camera business, they sell cameras not crucifixes and jesus posters
    if they made me a camera I would probably buy it
    but you know, its been awhile ... and this isnt exactly rocket science
    I say cut the excuses and get on it
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidh202 View Post
    I am predicting a late October -November announcement for the new 4/3 flagship! My gut feeling is, it's going to innovative, and really good, and the people who had HG and SHG glass and jumped ship, are going to be sorry they did.

    David
    My guess and hope is you are right on your prediction. It has taken them a long time and most of a year yet to go if they wait 'til the end of the year. But, I'd bet they're spending time to get it right and hopefully the two main problems (noise and C-AF) will be answered in the new 4/3 body. My worry is that it will sell for $2,000 or more though, because a revised E-5 won't cut it, but a totally advanced body will. I'll wait 'til the end of the year for their product and decide if it's worth the wait or not. If not, I'll find a good E-5 and keep my new e-m5 and save for a fast m4/3 200mm zoom.

    Steve

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    No shortage of Oly gear in Canada

    Don's Photo, Henry's, Vistek and McBain Camera all have the E-5 and OMD EM5 in stock !

    Cheers, Don
    From E-510/E-30/E-3/E-5 to Nikon D7100 and now D7200/D800/D500
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
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    Birds and other stuff


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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Pilcher View Post
    I gave up on 4/3 in mid-2011 when the Olympus USA service manager admitted to me (!) that they could not get two different Zuiko 35-100mm f/2 zooms to focus consistently and reliably on two different E-5 bodies. He called the focus motors in the 35-100mm "old technology" and literally gave up; I was stuck.
    I have the 150 f2 and the 7-14, and am hanging onto them in the hope that Olympus comes up with something really good this year.
    But reading your comment regarding the old generation focus motors James, deep in my heart I don't believe they can equal the better lenses from other manufacturers, as regards focus speed and just plain nice action, no matter how good the new dual focus system can be. I have 2 'L' lenses, and the first thing that struck me forcibly was how smooth, quick and silent their focus was, a real pleasure to use, and I won't even mention the Olympus fly-by-wire MF action in comparison. The newer m4/3 lenses seem to be catchup time however.
    We will see.
    Cheers,
    Don

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCT View Post
    My guess and hope is you are right on your prediction. It has taken them a long time and most of a year yet to go if they wait 'til the end of the year. But, I'd bet they're spending time to get it right and hopefully the two main problems (noise and C-AF) will be answered in the new 4/3 body. My worry is that it will sell for $2,000 or more though, because a revised E-5 won't cut it, but a totally advanced body will. I'll wait 'til the end of the year for their product and decide if it's worth the wait or not. If not, I'll find a good E-5 and keep my new e-m5 and save for a fast m4/3 200mm zoom.

    Steve
    not a lot wrong with E5 for people used to the Olympus 'experience', seemingly always improved but lesser AF
    sure it could be smaller and lighter,
    at the end of the day its just that sensor
    still, they did a great job of resolution for a 12Mp body, which could even outshake D3
    and ISO bracket made very interesting and controllable colour tones that almost makes up for the lack of DR out of the sensor

    so of all things the sensor has to go, Im not much concerned about anything else except perhaps video
    It would be nice if it were 25fps video, high bit rate, even multi aspect - 16x9
    I dont need 'Pro' tags, I dont really need nor object to 'retro'
    I can live with an EVF, I do so with GH2

    It better not be $2k or they wont make another
    cheap FF is less than that so the ballpark has scaled down quite a bit
    high end APSC has become cheap FF, , and mid range APSC has become high end APSC
    I think in todays environment even $1300 might be pushing it
    might depend a bit on where the 7D replacement is priced
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    I would love to see $1300, but if it is fully advanced, I doubt it will be anywhere near that. I think Olympus is very proud of what they produce and if it (E-X) conquers everyone's doubts, they will be very proud. Their pricing of the OM-D E-M5, to me, seems they were very proud of it when released. And it's proved them right. I do hope you're right though Riley.

    Steve

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCT View Post
    I would love to see $1300, but if it is fully advanced, I doubt it will be anywhere near that. I think Olympus is very proud of what they produce and if it (E-X) conquers everyone's doubts, they will be very proud. Their pricing of the OM-D E-M5, to me, seems they were very proud of it when released. And it's proved them right. I do hope you're right though Riley.

    Steve
    Im just not sure what they would do to a camera to justify more money
    big ticket items are sensors, AA filters, LCD screens, IS mechanism,
    but really coming from base low end APSC camera prices of $600 its already looking pretty 'generous'
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    That won't be their target market (D5200 or 60D owners). Their target market will be lens owners of 1500-6000 per lens. So since they are not competing with 7D or D7100 anymore, they don't have to price their offering based on those body prices.
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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    As I've read the further responses to this thread I've come to a conclusion:

    Either Olympus will or won't release a new, traditional DSLR body. If they do I'll do my best to try to afford one. If they don't the E-5 will serve me just fine. This system has pros and cons for me just as the system I just left had pros and cons for me. In my case, the Pentax cons were just more limiting than the Olympus cons.

    And that's really all it boils down to.
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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkesha View Post
    That won't be their target market (D5200 or 60D owners). Their target market will be lens owners of 1500-6000 per lens. So since they are not competing with 7D or D7100 anymore, they don't have to price their offering based on those body prices.
    their target market is us, and we are 'sitting ducks'
    not true to everyone as an individual but the market buys on price
    unless a product is uniquely special, products lead on price. in which case the competition is whatever price bracket they fall into
    the risk is, another high priced body and we will lose just about everyone in the format, its a needless risk

    out of what you mention
    D5200 is $700, D7100 is $1200, 7D was $1700 at release, add cheap FF presently $2k
    I'd hate to think how much a D3200 body only is (seem only to be sold with kit lenses), but that gamut pretty well brackets their prospects in this end of the SLR world

    they could try $1700, but I think that would be a disaster, and I think Canon with the upcoming 7D replacement will realise that too
    the strategy of making Ex as opposed to something more middle of the road makes no sense to me if they want to move product, sell cameras, and survive
    they can no longer make forward plans based on the containment old model system if their plan is one camera for 43rds, thats just silly
    a smaller, lighter, sealed updated E30 has a far greater chance of survival, it is after all, more about the sensor
    as a model, 20-50k 43rds cameras per year would be a significant increase in Olympus market volume

    anything else just keeps 43rds in the holding pattern to its eventual and permanent demise when it runs out of gas
    something I personally would try to avoid
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: I want my cake and able to eat it too.

    I guess I should feel blessed. The pro camera shop across the street from my work (I can see it out my window) sells Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Panasonic, Sony and Olympus...and their accessories. If they don't have it in the store, they are usually willing to order it. The owner himself has an OMD and loves it...I buy from them when I can.
    Clint
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    Default Tarhet Market & price of a new Pro E-x

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    ...out of what you mention D5200 is $700, D7100 is $1200, 7D was $1700 at release, add cheap FF presently $2k
    ...

    they could try $1700, but I think that would be a disaster, and I think Canon with the upcoming 7D replacement will realise that too
    ...they can no longer make forward plans based on the containment old model system if their plan is one camera for 43rds, thats just silly
    a smaller, lighter, sealed updated E30 has a far greater chance of survival, it is after all, more about the sensor
    as a model, ...
    ...
    I agree with a lot of what you said Riley, however:
    The OM-D EM-5 is a $1460 camera when you add the grip and lens adapter it needs to shoot HG and SHG 4/3 lenses. That's without a lens. That's only $240 under the MSRP for the E-5, $1700.

    The E-5 is currently Olympus' best camera for using the SHG and HG lenses. The E-620 is a good option, but only because it has a later/better sensor. That won't be true for the next E-x, E-xx or E-xxx. Whatever it may be, it will have the latest greatest sensor that Olympus can possibly offer in a camera. If you're a loyal Olympus shooter or you want to be, you want the best body to go with those superb lenses.

    A new body takes up to a year (at least?) to develop and get to market, so it can't have a sensor that's being developed in the last 6 months. That may be why the E-5 was released with an older sensor.

    And the big difference between Olympus and all those cameras with APS-C sensors are the lens options. The DX offerings I've seen lately are slow and soft. To get good optics with fast apertures and OIS, on a par with Olympus, you have to buy the f/2.8 FF lenses from Canikon. And a lot of their best lenses don't offer OIS, like some of the wide, normal FL and short tele range lenses.
    A smaller lighter weather sealed E-30 does not currently exist in an Olympus DSLR. That niche is filled by the OM-D. A weather sealed, rugged, Pro body is the niche the E-5 fills. The E-5 size and weight works for me with the SHG lenses.

    The E-3 and the E-5 were both released at $1700. The E-3 held that price until it was replaced. I would expect the next Pro, weather sealed, mag-alloy rugged DSLR with an OVF to be an E-7 style body released at $1700 or above. And it will be competitive with any APS-C camera because of the better, less expensive, top of the line, fast lens system.

    Olympus doesn't build cameras on the same scale of number that Canikon does, so maybe they can not be competitive in price. Canon and Nikon can build mag-alloy bodies for less than Olympus. They can buy more sensors than Olympus at a lower rate. Olympus cameras have to be better.

    I'd also be happy and content if Olympus released an E-30 or E-620 style body next to keep the sytem available for entry level shooters, and then offered another Pro E-x body farther down the line. My E-5 works fine for now. I just need to know it will be upgraded some time in the future.
    Dave in So Cal

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    Default Re: Tarhet Market & price of a new Pro E-x

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you said Riley, however:
    The OM-D EM-5 is a $1460 camera when you add the grip and lens adapter it needs to shoot HG and SHG 4/3 lenses. That's without a lens. That's only $240 under the MSRP for the E-5, $1700.
    and thats because OMD is simply too small for us, (not that this is the only issue with 43rds lens owners)

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    The E-5 is currently Olympus' best camera for using the SHG and HG lenses. The E-620 is a good option, but only because it has a later/better sensor. That won't be true for the next E-x, E-xx or E-xxx. Whatever it may be, it will have the latest greatest sensor that Olympus can possibly offer in a camera. If you're a loyal Olympus shooter or you want to be, you want the best body to go with those superb lenses.
    I think its true that, it is all about the prospects of a better sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    A new body takes up to a year (at least?) to develop and get to market, so it can't have a sensor that's being developed in the last 6 months. That may be why the E-5 was released with an older sensor.
    Ive been told 2 years, that includes 6 months for the sensor. Something like E5 would have been less because there isnt any time spent on describing the camera size, shape or detail. Although to an extent these things are concurrent

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    And the big difference between Olympus and all those cameras with APS-C sensors are the lens options. The DX offerings I've seen lately are slow and soft. To get good optics with fast apertures and OIS, on a par with Olympus, you have to buy the f/2.8 FF lenses from Canikon. And a lot of their best lenses don't offer OIS, like some of the wide, normal FL and short tele range lenses.
    I agree the lens choices in APSC are a lot more difficult, for myself I look at UWA which is very tough and more dependent on 3rd party lens suppliers. They take a big hit right there.
    This is in a sense my frustration too though, as the 43rds lens range is so spoiling, I really dont want to lose it.

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    A smaller lighter weather sealed E-30 does not currently exist in an Olympus DSLR. That niche is filled by the OM-D. A weather sealed, rugged, Pro body is the niche the E-5 fills. The E-5 size and weight works for me with the SHG lenses.
    Nonetheless I use that proposal to illustrate the faulted concept of trading only the Ex. I think its a mistake because they seem to have locked themselves into only offering their top of the line camera, its left Exxx and Exx users out in the cold, while not forgetting there are a lot of tempting options out there at a fraction of the price. For these folks its been what, four or five years, thats a lot to ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    The E-3 and the E-5 were both released at $1700. The E-3 held that price until it was replaced. I would expect the next Pro, weather sealed, mag-alloy rugged DSLR with an OVF to be an E-7 style body released at $1700 or above. And it will be competitive with any APS-C camera because of the better, less expensive, top of the line, fast lens system.
    Market circumstances have changed, they need to adapt to that reality. Ok it seems like we agree a lot on APSC, so what about FF? Cheap FF will have a tendency to drag second hand FF prices down, and cheap FF will be even cheaper a year from now. Add to that Olympus are fighting a lot of negatives now, the Woodford fiasco, the loss of user base, the conflicting signals from Olympus execs, continued speculation about the survival or not of the 43rds SLR line. This from an operator that is less well known to begin with and has less of a profile on the shelves of shops to be purchased.

    Working professionally what should someone go for; follow a market that seems to be universally sliding up into FF, or go with a tainted business name from a lesser known marque with a format of questionable survivability? How much sense does marketing Ex seem to be now?

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    Olympus doesn't build cameras on the same scale of number that Canikon does, so maybe they can not be competitive in price. Canon and Nikon can build mag-alloy bodies for less than Olympus. They can buy more sensors than Olympus at a lower rate. Olympus cameras have to be better.
    Quite right, they can never be a volume producer, so i guess theyre stuck with making desirable product, and its possible to do that and still run a good profit. Leica manage their situation very well considering the high cost inputs and the degree of hand building. While Leica pricing seems to be (and is) exorbitant, they dont make that much of a profit, so their pricing is likely well optimised 'for them'

    Likewise this can be made to work for Olympus a little, take the case of Fuji. When Fuji moved up from 2/3" sensor cameras they had the choice to get back into SLRs but they didnt, they became cheap Leica and made nice looking cameras with unique salient features, and they found they couldnt make enough of the things. Instead of being an SLR also ran, Fuji wisely became a niche operator.Likewise Olympus have to again find their way, they cant keep plodding along in the same disinterested (in their userbase) way, they need to step up to the plate with interesting product. But on the question of what is interesting where is there to go? Go back to the lens suite and see where they sit, they are quite ideally placed in two areas, outdoor wildlife, and video. if necessary add a lens or two to the range but there is an opportunity to step into a zone as yet not so well covered sans 7D for wildlife, and GHx which has walked away from everyone for video

    Just as an example of how irritating a poorly marked IP is from a company that plainly doesnt listen, since the year m43rds began, people have been screaming for a RF 'type' camera with an EVF, yet inexplicably there still isnt one in the lineup. Instead Im baffled by the vast array of look alike EP whatevers, its not like Im clueless, but I just dont seem to see where they are going. They need to make these hard decisions and make a statement in camera design they can stand behind, otherwise theyre going to be underneath it.

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    I'd also be happy and content if Olympus released an E-30 or E-620 style body next to keep the sytem available for entry level shooters, and then offered another Pro E-x body farther down the line. My E-5 works fine for now. I just need to know it will be upgraded some time in the future.

    BTW, Id like to take the opportunity to thank everyones patience in discussing these matters civilly, theyre not always easy things to hear and sometimes can be a bit of a pita when theyre constant or too much.
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: Tarhet Market & price of a new Pro E-x

    I love the E-30... I took it out to shoot over the weekend and continue to feel like I love it... and my HG lenses, too.

    I bought an OM-D last fall because of a confluence of circumstances that made it possible and because my E-30 shutter count is getting high, it has a few problems, and needs to be sent in for repair. But that is all background to my real thought: If Olympus came out with an E-x or an E-xx that had a significantly improved sensor & processor over the E-5, would I sell my OM-D to fund it? If it really was an "E-30 with an upgraded sensor & processor" then I think I would. Other than the kit lens (14-42mm) and the 4:3s adapter that I bought at the same time, I have no commitment to m4:3s - - it was a sensor and a protection of my lens investment that I bought.

    I do not love the OM-D. I like it - - it is a nice camera, and for what I shoot, the AF problems with the 4:3s HG lenses are not a problem. I would love a new adapter that made the focus better, if such a thing were actually possible to make, but I really don't use AF that much. I like that it is smaller - - but none of these things I like stack up to how much I like shooting the E-30 - - except for the dynamic range and the better high ISO performance. Yes, I'd sell it...

    Unfortunately, I do not think that's what we will see... I feel as if Olympus has lost their way a bit. Financially, I cannot see them making an E-x solely - - there are not enough people to buy that. And I cannot see them making just an E-xx either, because they will lose the last of their "professional" shooters. And I do not see them having the money to float both.

    But maybe I'll be surprised.
    Wes Clavey
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