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Thread: "One Beautiful System" coming in September

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    Default Re: "Two Beautiful Systems" coming in September

    For this to work, the sensor would have to protrude into the opening of the 43rds side of the adapter. Otherwise the distance between the sensor and the m43 lens would be the same no matter which way the adapter was turned, as the sensor would need to be mounted deeper into the camera body to clear the adapter. The idea is sound if the sensor and all attached systems/mechanisms fit into the opening of a 43 format lens mount. This, I do not know?

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    Default Re: "Two Beautiful Systems" coming in September

    Sorry, but it is totally different from any other adapter. With a standard adapter you are never putting a surface that has been directly exposed to the environment inside the camera body. Dust, moisture, etc. that have accumulated on the outside of the adapter when it is being used for FT lenses is now INSIDE the camera body when the adapter is reversed. Yes you can get dust and moisture inside of a regular adapter but that is easier to control.
    Last edited by saburns; 08-10-2013 at 08:11 AM.

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    Default Re: "One Beautiful System" coming in September

    In October of 2010 I was one of the first to grab an E5, and I'm looking forward to this system quite a bit. The day it is announced, I'll be on the horn getting on pre-order lists.

    However, my concern is in this adaptor. I'm not a tech guy, just a guy who wants his camera to work well and have some nice features. I'm assuming that it will not hinder me using my long lens and tele on it. I love the E5, but my main reason for getting the new body would be apparently being able to shoot at higher ISOs and hopefully with less noise - something I really would like for birding when I'd like to be able to shoot at ISO 1000 and beyond and not have the image come out like a UHF channel from 1985. 12 megapixels is also plenty, but with cropping so many of my birds I certainly would't mind even more.

    So, bottom line is if this adaptor is cumbersome or flimsy, I'll be dissapointed. But if it's really no big deal at all that shouldn't be an issue. I leave my 2x tele and long lens on virtually all the time, and only change when I'm photographing landscape or architecture or at the horse track to photograph the races. Bottom line for me is it's 90% about the birds, and if this new system can get me a little more ISO so I can also get some nice shots on cloudy days or am following a bird in flight at sunset, then it's worth it to me. That being said, the E5 will still be there as a plan B.
    Father Paul

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    Default Re: "Two Beautiful Systems" coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    ok so lets look at that, first revisit the configuration

    its a mirrorless camera with a new mount, neither 43rds or m43rds
    the camera wont work without the adapter because no lens fits the cameras mount, only the adapter does

    so what is it about this adapter
    the shape is basically that of MMF-x, with the addition of a flange mount (A)
    it has a 43rds lens mount (B) on one side and a m43rds lens mount (C) on the other

    because the flange (A) is offset, it accounts for the difference in m43rds and 43rds mount registers

    for those that havent got it,
    I don't get it Riley? Why go to so much trouble when an MMF-x adapter works so simply? Besides, your sketch is physically difficult if not impossible to fit in a camera.

    As I said before, the only thing worth making hybrid about any m4/3 camera is the focusing system. There's no need to make a new lens mount adapter, unless it's going to have a mirror and PDAF sensor in it. And many of us here aren't interested in a small form m4/3 camera that compromises what a DSLR like the E-5 offers.

    The adapter you sketched has a flaw. The set-back distance of a m4/3 is about the same as the difference between the setback distances of the two systems. The set-back for the m4/3 is about 20 mm. The setback for the 4/3 is just under 40 mm. The flange you sketched would have to be about 20 mm thick between flanges. Turning that around and placing the 4/3 side 20 mm behind the m/43 flange, inside the camera, would push it back right on top of the sensor. That leaves no room for anything like the shutter (E-P5) or the sensor cleaner. Your sketch of an adapter has girth too. It's at least as wide as a lens flange and more likely as wide as an MMF-x once you add the electronics. It takes space away from the inside of the camera around the lens mount and sensor.

    I saw a Novoflex lens collar that goes on a m4/3 adapter. The collar fits over the lens adapter and has an Arca Swiss plate where a typical lens collar base would be. It's perfect for mounting a 4/3 lens and m4/3 camera on a tripod or monopod closer to the center of gravity. The plate could also be improvised to fit a grip located at the base of the lens or tied into a larger grip for the camera that also supports the 4/3 lens. Novoflex makes their MFT adapters for various legacy film lenses but not for 4/3 to m4/3. Novoflex doesn't make a MMF-x type of wired adapter, but their collar may fit the Olympus MMF-x anyway. It's available from B&H and can be found n the Novoflex website as well.
    Dave in So Cal

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    Default Olympus Austrailia product availability

    Quote Originally Posted by muzwilfly View Post
    I guess we will all find out whats coming when the powers that be want us to know.
    All I know is on the Australian Olympus site all the 4/3 lenses except the SHGs are listed as out of stock.
    I looked at this recently when someone else pointed this out. The E-5 is listed as "available from retailers". So are the SHG lenses and all of the flash products. Olympus Austrailia does not list any items for sale on their website. The refer you to a retailer. All of the m4/3 cameras, lenses and flash products are listed as "available from retailers".

    I think you need to do a search with Austrailian retailers who normally carry Olympus and see what they have available for sale.

    Here in the US Olympus America lists all of the lenses as "In Stock" aand for sale at MSRP prices. The E-5 has been out of stock on their site for a couple of months. But it's still available from a few retail sources. The lenses are all available at the usual sources. Not many people are buying lenses right now. It's hard to make an investment in HG and SHG lenses when you don't know what's coming next.

    I believe Olympus is intentionally running out of E-5 cameras so that when they announce an E-x upgrade they will not have to discount a lot of outdated, similarly priced E-5. That happened with the E-3 when the E-5 came out. The price of an E-3 dropped by about $600 overnight. Someone had to pay for those discounts and it was probably Olympus.

    I'm hoping for a 4/3 DSLR upgrade to go with my 10 Olympus lenses. I just picked up a 35 mm f/3.5 macro lens for a good price. I plan to use it on the E-5 when I need closer focus than the 50 mm f/2 provides and on my wife's E-PL2 as a macro lens that's far less expensive than the m4/3 60 mm macro.
    Dave in So Cal

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    Default Re: "Two Beautiful Systems" coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark View Post
    I don't get it Riley? Why go to so much trouble when an MMF-x adapter works so simply? Besides, your sketch is physically difficult if not impossible to fit in a camera.
    blunt version
    theyre cheap ****
    you might be lucky to get the actual cost of these things up to $12
    no way is this press beer can metal and linoleum worth what they charge for it
    and no way would I be hanging a $6k 300mm and 2x on it
    ymamv

    another reason
    it is always possible to leave the adapter behind going to a shoot
    the acceptable way to do it is to buy more adapters, one for each lens you are 'likely' to use for a shoot
    what would that be, 2, 3 maybe 4 or 5?
    that would return lens changes to similar speeds
    but more importantly if you are on your feet working out of a bag on your shoulder
    you arent going to drop things as easily juggling parts

    I can just imagine Ozray, or an event shooter or PJ trying to work with adapters and quite large SHG lenses
    in isnt a gear-safe or professionally acceptable way to work

    as to 'impossible to fit in a camera', I guess I can legitimately just end it there...
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: "Two Beautiful Systems" coming in September

    Guys when all the smoke and mirrors are over it is going to turn out to be a MFT body with pdaf on the sensor (courtesy of Sony) and a supplied mft to ft adaptor.

    This way a improvement is seen over the E-M5 better AF (pdaf) on mft lenses to appeal to and keep the MFT owners happy and justify the price hike over the E-M5, and also they hope keep the minority FT owners happy and make Oly money from both camps.
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    Default Re: "Two Beautiful Systems" coming in September

    I too doubt that there is going to be anything revolutionary. Its just going to be on sensor PDAF like we've seen with everyone else, could be that the even the current adapters will work.

    The sad thing about this release is that its now sure that there isn't going to be another 4/3 DSLR. Even though I no longer have 4/3 lenses, I was still hoping Olympus would make small comeback.
    Olympus E-M1 Mk II
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    Default Re: "Two Beautiful Systems" coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by davidh202 View Post
    MFT, FT, FF ,APS, doesn't really matter much anymore. All the camera companies are in for a wake up call if the current trends continue.
    There is one huge difference between FT and the rest of them. You can't buy a new FT camera. Even B&H is showing the E-5 as discontinued. :-(

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    Default No one knows what's coming in September

    No one knows what's coming next from Olympus. Certainly not 4/3 Rumors. They're just repeating what everyone is assuming in the forums. They're saying what they think the majority of you want to hear. It brings in hits to the site and sells advertising.

    Olympus sales rep's are saying there is a m4/3 upgrade to the OM-D E-M5 coming. They are not saying anything about a DSLR except what was stated by Olympus in February. The most they said is they realize m4/3 does not satisfy the needs of people who want to shoot with a DSLR and that they'll continue to support 4/3 lenses.

    Does Sony have an EVIL or DSLR-like camera with PDAF on sensor? That's news to me. There are rumors that they will, but it's not here yet. Believe it when you see it. None of the brands offering PDAF on-sensor are doing a good job of it yet. This kind of focus is not going to support 4/3 lenses to the level we're used to on an E-5.

    We'll all know what it's going to be in a few weeks when Olympus announces the next camera. Meanwhile I am not paying any attention to rumor sites and I can't put much weight into speculation from people on a forum, no matter how many times it's repeated.
    Dave in So Cal

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    Default Re: No one knows what's coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark View Post
    No one knows what's coming next from Olympus. Certainly not 4/3 Rumors.
    The shadow knows.....
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    Default Re: No one knows what's coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark View Post
    No one knows what's coming next from Olympus. Certainly not 4/3 Rumors. They're just repeating what everyone is assuming in the forums. They're saying what they think the majority of you want to hear. It brings in hits to the site and sells advertising.
    its fine to have that view, but back when OMD was in launch 43rumors were getting their inf and their pics piece by piece from somewhere (I cant imagine a rumour site cutting a pic up to drag it out), and 'I' think that had to be Olympus. Which is fine too; smart in some ways...

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    Olympus sales rep's are saying there is a m4/3 upgrade to the OM-D E-M5 coming. They are not saying anything about a DSLR except what was stated by Olympus in February. The most they said is they realize m4/3 does not satisfy the needs of people who want to shoot with a DSLR and that they'll continue to support 4/3 lenses.

    Does Sony have an EVIL or DSLR-like camera with PDAF on sensor? That's news to me.
    here is the news
    Sony NEX-6 Review: Digital Photography Review
    Nex-6 autofocus, phase detect
    are we there yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    There are rumors that they will, but it's not here yet. Believe it when you see it. None of the brands offering PDAF on-sensor are doing a good job of it yet. This kind of focus is not going to support 4/3 lenses to the level we're used to on an E-5.
    I think that is the replacement camera for E5 turns out to be an OMD with pdAF ala' Sony and these MMF adapters
    and after playing the 'anticipation' card yet again while that pdAF is found to be less than perfect, it could just explode in their faces

    its the 'perfect storm' scenario thats going to get pretty uncomfortable around the traps seeing how this has been dragged out to the max with 'we're working on it'. Of course all those previously critical of what they describe as 'naysayers' will just quietly slip into the background and switch the computer off to dark screen mode.

    Watching old friends display their anger and the ever present trolls have a field day isnt going to be easy,
    make no mistake, for those of us who are 'out there' it will be a bloodbath

    Quote Originally Posted by whaleshark
    We'll all know what it's going to be in a few weeks when Olympus announces the next camera. Meanwhile I am not paying any attention to rumor sites and I can't put much weight into speculation from people on a forum, no matter how many times it's repeated.
    I think that if Olympus are truly respecting of the 'pro' market
    dragging this out much further is a mistake this time around

    .... but thats just what I think ..., and what would I know..
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: No one knows what's coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by laingjd View Post
    The shadow knows.....
    I dont want to be disrespectful but
    this isnt working for me...
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default No one knows & The Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    ...
    I think that [if] the replacement camera for E5 turns out to be an OMD with pdAF ala' Sony and these MMF adapters
    and after playing the 'anticipation' card yet again while that pdAF is found to be less than perfect, it could just explode in their faces

    .... but thats just what I think ..., and what would I know..
    4/3 Rumors was wrong about a lot of things related to the E-5 release. They're stabbing in the dark, just like everyone else. The pre-release photos may be coming from the marketing department. Someone is out there doing the layout art for ads.

    The Sony NEX is not a replacement for a DSLR, neither Sony's FF, Canon's APS, Nikon's D300 nor Olympus's E-5.

    If the OM-D explodes in people's faces that would be the end of the camera line for Olympus. Would you use a camera that explodes?

    You know as much as the rest of us here. Which is not a lot. No one knows.
    ... except "the Shadow knows".
    Do you remember this old radio show from way back? The Shadow was an unseen detective (that was the illusion on the radio shows) who solved crimes and knew things no one else could see. The Shadow was replayed on National Public Radio here in So Cal during the 1960s and maybe into the 1970s.
    Dave in So Cal

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    Default Re: No one knows what's coming in September

    Hi David,
    You know that thread is not to be taken seriously. But there are two posts in it that are hilarious. Roel's and the one that follows it. Worth a look, if just for a laugh
    Dave in So Cal

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    Default Re: No one knows what's coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    I dont want to be disrespectful but
    this isnt working for me...
    E-1
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    Enuff lenses to supply the world.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: The Shadow Knows!

    E-1
    E-5
    EP-3
    EPL-1
    EM-5
    Pen F
    M8.2
    M9-P
    M 240
    Dlux 109
    M-6
    Enuff lenses to supply the world.

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    Default Re: The Shadow Knows!

    Quote Originally Posted by davidh202 View Post
    I know Dave, I was just letting Riley see that our very own "shadow" is none other than ...laingjd, who posted that on that thread over there. I am going to stick my neck out and say that I also suspect our "shadow" might in fact be a beta tester for Oly, he knows too much
    David,
    Good to know. Thanks. I think Riley is all over dpreview. He posts there more than I do. You guys are getting these subtle nuances a lot more often than I am.
    Dave in So Cal

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    Default Re: "One Beautiful System" coming in September

    It seems to me Olympus rumors about their flagships always seem to be way off the mark. Unlike other rumor sites that usually get at least most of it right. Over the years I have heard it all about Olympus. Remember the modular leaked pictures. I wouldn't put much into anything until its official.


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    Default Re: "One Beautiful System" coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmonaut View Post
    It seems to me Olympus rumors about their flagships always seem to be way off the mark. Unlike other rumor sites that usually get at least most of it right. Over the years I have heard it all about Olympus. Remember the modular leaked pictures. I wouldn't put much into anything until its official.
    well heres what you will get from Olympus
    OLYMPUS | News Products
    so the alternatives are?

    as to 43rumors, well they arent the only ones with something to say
    Google Traduttore

    and we, ok make that 'I' wouldnt have heard of that, but for 43rumors reporting it
    HOT!!! Olympus surprise: We will do the hybrid FT and MFT camera by end 2013! No classic FT E-7 camera anymore! | 43 Rumors

    meanwhile back at Olympus they said
    Olympus - Corporate Information - Camera and Audio Business

    well, not a lot....

    what concerns me is this, this appears to be a fundamental change that is happening
    now it doesnt matter all that much to me, Ive already been compensated for the value of my gear through having used it for work and by the grace of the almighty tax system. I've got plan A and plan B in place. Im not 'in this for me'

    But there are a core of users out there that dont want to change
    AND they still think an SLR is coming down the pipe later this year

    standing on the beach with binoculars looking out to see if the tsunami is coming isnt the way to face these challenges
    when the tsunami finally does arrive, the electricity will go off, and Doris Day will stop singing Que Sera, Sera
    Riley

    Olympus User, Pro Photographer since 2003

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    Default Re: "One Beautiful System" coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    I am on board with the rumored hybrid if:
    1. It focuses my 4/3 lenses (14-54 II and 50-200 I) at least as well as the E-30.
    2. It is bigger and has more battery capacity than the OM-D.
    3. The VF is better than the OM-D, (higher resolution and less flickery), be it EVF or some sort of hybrid, .
    4. The high ISO is on a par with the D7000-D7100, that is, a bit better than the OM-D.
    5. They don't overshoot on the MP. 18-20 is plenty!
    6. The AA filter is either not there or very weak.
    7. The price is not over the moon.

    Now, that isn't too much to ask for, is it?
    what about 6 out of 7 ?
    Riley

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    Default Re: "One Beautiful System" coming in September

    EVF= price point camera. They're cheaper to produce which leads to a better profit margin even at a reduced list price. They're a smart move for manufacturers looking to increase their bottom line, and advertising has made them popular with the general public. I still really dislike them for many valid reasons. It will be interesting to see if Olympus considers the new camera a "pro" replacement for the E7...
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    Default Re: "One Beautiful System" coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    I am on board with the rumored hybrid if:
    1. It focuses my 4/3 lenses (14-54 II and 50-200 I) at least as well as the E-30.
    2. It is bigger and has more battery capacity than the OM-D.
    3. The VF is better than the OM-D, (higher resolution and less flickery), be it EVF or some sort of hybrid, .
    4. The high ISO is on a par with the D7000-D7100, that is, a bit better than the OM-D.
    5. They don't overshoot on the MP. 18-20 is plenty!
    6. The AA filter is either not there or very weak.
    7. The price is not over the moon.

    Now, that isn't too much to ask for, is it?
    These are essentially my requirements too.
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    Default Re: "Two Beautiful Systems" coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by davidh202 View Post
    MFT, FT, FF ,APS, doesn't really matter much anymore. All the camera companies are in for a wake up call if the current trends continue.
    This is true, but who will be left standing?
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    Default What's not coming in September

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    I am on board with the rumored hybrid if:
    1. It focuses my 4/3 lenses (14-54 II and 50-200 I) at least as well as the E-30.
    2. It is bigger and has more battery capacity than the OM-D.
    3. The VF is better than the OM-D, (higher resolution and less flickery), be it EVF or some sort of hybrid, .
    4. The high ISO is on a par with the D7000-D7100, that is, a bit better than the OM-D.
    5. They don't overshoot on the MP. 18-20 is plenty!
    6. The AA filter is either not there or very weak.
    7. The price is not over the moon.

    Now, that isn't too much to ask for, is it?
    I wouldn't expect #s 1 and 2 to happen. The m4/3 OM-D is intentionally a smaller camera. Big batteries add wieght so I don't expect this either.
    #3 Expect the EVF to be similar to the VF-4 on the E-P5.
    #4 That could happen. I expect the sensor to be similar to the E-P5, unless they make a stab at PDAF on sensor.
    #5 That could happen.
    #6 That's the trend and very likely to be found on any future OM-D.
    #7 Some people are saying... they'd pay $1500 to $1800. That's more than I'd pay for any MILC. I think it has to compete with the GH3, NEX 7 and other MILC.

    Reading the Sony NEX 6 review that Riley recommended I found this comparison of PDAF on sensor to a DSLR with PDAF.
    "As with the system Canon has implemented in the EOS M, the on-sensor phase detection isn't used as a standalone system (it's unlikely to have the fidelity that the dedicated sensors used in DSLRs have), so it's used in combination with conventional contrast detection. As such the phase detection information is used to drive the lens near to the in-focus position, then contrast detection is used to scan for the optimal focus point, to fine-tune the focus.
    We weren't overly impressed with Canon's implementation of this feature on the EOS M (the overall focus performance of which is simply slow), but Sony has done a much better job on the NEX-6. The camera focuses nearly instantly in high contrast situations, and takes less than a second in low light or other difficult scenes.
    Outdoors, the NEX-6 was able to track moving subjects surprisingly well - even when shooting at 10 frames/second. We shot ten burst sequences of an approaching bicycle (with a rather busy background behind him), and the NEX was able to track the subject about 70% of the time. We'd expect a better hit-rate from true phase-detection AF systems, but from a camera of this type, we're impressed."
    Dave in So Cal

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