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Thread: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'm glad I have no interest in shooting "birds in flight" on anything other than a casual basis.
    I think I have closed the book on birds, and there is soon to be a massive Olympus sell off including my big tuna. Just need to get around to listing it all...

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    I don't want to dis Chevvyf1's enthusiastic contributions to BIF with the E-M1, and they are appreciated. But I do have to say that his links to images do not show particularly demanding subjects for continuous focus for BIF, or even a running dog, let alone circling gulls. I was skeptical, and have tried his settings using the m43 75-300mm, but honestly I did not notice any difference applying them. Plus2 contrast, Vivid, JPG (not Raw) settings required to stop BIF? WTF! Users of C and N cameras would laugh themselves silly if they heard this is what we have to do.
    I shoot both side by side on all types of action subjects, and can compare them at the the same time. The fact is that the E-M1 combination in good light can produce lovely images part of the time. The big C will reliably produce good images most of the time, no matter the light, and no matter the settings. Well almost!
    So, I'm now accepting the differences, and I'm enjoying very much each system for what it does well.
    Cheers,
    Don

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevvyf1 View Post
    Ned I have enough great images to know the ONE works for Bif as do many others in the UK

    YES I do know how low light affects AF at 6.7 BUT DO YOU KNOW HOW my settings affect my captured images of Bif ???

    See Here LOW LIGHT Bif - loads of good IMAGES

    Brian Wadie's Images from Nature

    Charlie Brown is a Peregrine Falcon - in October here in the UK most days light is POOR - and Carlie is one of the fastest birds on earth
    Brian Wadie's Images from Nature



    and Surfers doing "tricks" LOW LIGHT again and greater distance


    Brian Wadie's Images from Nature

    Brian Wadie's Images from Nature

    With all due respect, showing images of birds against a solid blue sky, or captive birds that you know where the bird is coming from does not bolster your case. I don't have many wild falcon shots because they just don't come around that often. Here is one with my E-5. This bird was flying very fast and came out of nowhere. There are many reasons why the EM-1 would have trouble with this image and frankly I am tired of discussing the reasons why.


    Here is a random duck shot in good lighting conditions. Just because I like it.


    Here is an EM-1 shot. It can produce better static images in most cases than the E-5, just don't try to convince me that it's better for BIF. It's Not :-D



    Another shot that I have less than 1 second to find it and pull the trigger.


    Difficult Backgound, low light. You can see just how low the sun was in the birds eye.




    I have 1,000 examples. Not trying to be an $sshole but I have an idea of what I am talking about.

    Cheers,

    Ned

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Have to agree.
    The E-M1 with its EVF is in my opinion highly unsuited for anything that moves, AF issues aside. The flickering and sudden changes in brightness drive me nuts, and the longer the focal length, the worse it is. Move the camera and everything becomes a jittery blur. For static subjects it is great. What you see is what you get. But if you can't see what you want to get, then what? Is it is so necessary to adjust everything in the camera while shooting? Nail the exposure and the focus, everything else can be dealt with later in PP.
    I frankly can't see any serious bird/sports photographer being happy with the E-M1 unless he or she has no interest in BIF or fast action. Then, no question, it is a great camera.

    Ned,
    2nd to last is a great shot!

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    Have to agree.
    The E-M1 with its EVF is in my opinion highly unsuited for anything that moves, AF issues aside. The flickering and sudden changes in brightness drive me nuts, and the longer the focal length, the worse it is. Move the camera and everything becomes a jittery blur. For static subjects it is great. What you see is what you get. But if you can't see what you want to get, then what? Is it is so necessary to adjust everything in the camera while shooting? Nail the exposure and the focus, everything else can be dealt with later in PP.
    I frankly can't see any serious bird/sports photographer being happy with the E-M1 unless he or she has no interest in BIF or fast action. Then, no question, it is a great camera.
    Continuing to beat the horse but... Did anyone in this thread mention the lack of visible AF point's when in sequential shooting mode? Slow down to 6fps and try to keep a fast moving bird in the viewfinder. Ever blink your eye while doing sequential shooting on a fast moving subject? I have, and it will surprise you just how much even an eye blink will cause you to loose track of a fast mover with the EM-1 EVF.

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    I'll be using the E-M1 to photograph motorcycle racing, automobile racing, bicycle events, running events, people and children at gatherings, still life, etc etc etc. Plenty of action in at least three of those things.
    I have absolutely no problems getting good exposure and right-on-the-money focusing. BTW: I mostly don't bother with C-AF at all, and often use MF rather than S-AF. I love the viewfinder, it's FAR better than the E-5 viewfinder was and is nearly as good as the superb viewfinder in my Leicaflex SL. It works for me.

    I don't know what the heck you guys are complaining about. You must have totally different eyes from me.

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'll be using the E-M1 to photograph motorcycle racing, automobile racing, bicycle events, running events, people and children at gatherings, still life, etc etc etc. Plenty of action in at least three of those things.
    I have absolutely no problems getting good exposure and right-on-the-money focusing. BTW: I mostly don't bother with C-AF at all, and often use MF rather than S-AF. I love the viewfinder, it's FAR better than the E-5 viewfinder was and is nearly as good as the superb viewfinder in my Leicaflex SL. It works for me.

    I don't know what the heck you guys are complaining about. You must have totally different eyes from me.
    +1
    Steven R
    Tampa, Florida

    E-330, E-520, E-3

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'll be using the E-M1 to photograph motorcycle racing, automobile racing, bicycle events, running events, people and children at gatherings, still life, etc etc etc. Plenty of action in at least three of those things.
    I have absolutely no problems getting good exposure and right-on-the-money focusing. BTW: I mostly don't bother with C-AF at all, and often use MF rather than S-AF. I love the viewfinder, it's FAR better than the E-5 viewfinder was and is nearly as good as the superb viewfinder in my Leicaflex SL. It works for me.

    I don't know what the heck you guys are complaining about. You must have totally different eyes from me.
    You shouldn't have any issues shooting what you shoot. BIF is different and you don't have experience with that so you wouldn't understand. And that's okay. I love the EM-1 viewfinder, I think it's a game changer. But chasing little birds through the EVF, not so good. Nothing to do with eyes, it's technology.

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    For all you birders Tamron has a new 150-600mm available for pre order in Canon, Nikon and Sony mount. Canon and Nikon are stabilized in lens and Sony A mount is in body stabilized. $1069.00. Sample shots are really nice. I have one pre ordered for Sony and also I have the Kenko 1.4 teleconverter. I give up on my E-M1. I just never could get it to do what I wanted as far as wildlife or sports.


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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned View Post
    You shouldn't have any issues shooting what you shoot. BIF is different and you don't have experience with that so you wouldn't understand. And that's okay. I love the EM-1 viewfinder, I think it's a game changer. But chasing little birds through the EVF, not so good. Nothing to do with eyes, it's technology.
    Chasing a hockey puck is even harder. I used to shoot ice hockey with ASA 800 film and a manual focus, manual exposure, manual film wind camera. And get excellent results. I used my Panasonic G1 to shoot racing airplanes at the Reno Air Show a few years back. Was FAR easier than with the old Nikon F...

    So don't tell me I don't know what "chasing little birds through the EVF" is all about, Ned. You're hooked, dependent upon the technology if you think that way.
    I just figure out how to get what I want, and get it.

    As said, I have no interest in shooting birds in flight as a specialty. I would, most likely, buy a big Canon or Nikon if I did anyway ... but it's really of very very little interest to me.

    G

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Chasing a hockey puck is even harder. I used to shoot ice hockey with ASA 800 film and a manual focus, manual exposure, manual film wind camera. And get excellent results. I used my Panasonic G1 to shoot racing airplanes at the Reno Air Show a few years back. Was FAR easier than with the old Nikon F...

    So don't tell me I don't know what "chasing little birds through the EVF" is all about, Ned. You're hooked, dependent upon the technology if you think that way.
    I just figure out how to get what I want, and get it.

    As said, I have no interest in shooting birds in flight as a specialty. I would, most likely, buy a big Canon or Nikon if I did anyway ... but it's really of very very little interest to me.

    G
    But Godfrey, let's stay on track here. The point of discussion is birds through the EM-1's EVF and the issues in doing so. I never said you could not follow a puck around in manual mode and get good shots. I also have some great shots of BIF in manual mode using the OM350mm lens, but it would be silly even compared to the EM-1 issues to continue shooting in that manner. Yes, I would argue that most people doing bird photography are relying on technology.

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned View Post
    But Godfrey, let's stay on track here. The point of discussion is birds through the EM-1's EVF and the issues in doing so. I never said you could not follow a puck around in manual mode and get good shots. I also have some great shots of BIF in manual mode using the OM350mm lens, but it would be silly even compared to the EM-1 issues to continue shooting in that manner. Yes, I would argue that most people doing bird photography are relying on technology.
    True, if you do not to some extent rely on technology, or take advantage of it, you may as well be using a single shot prehistoric point and shoot.
    Don

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    I'm more concerned with getting the photos I want than whether I'm using or taking advantage of the technology. If a single shot prehistoric point and shoot gets the result I want, I'll use it. :-)

    G

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Godfrey,
    MF is no problem at all, in fact it is great. As you say, the VF is close to the SL, but not quite, and not when you move the camera. (It is OK with shorter focal lengths in MF, but it flickers like mad if you move while trying to AF focus.)
    Most of the movement situations you mentioned are situations where you know pretty much where things are going to happen. That is very different from having to shoot from the hip at something that has popped up by surprise, or if you have no idea where it is going to turn.

    We had our resident Hawfinch turn up at the feeder this morning. Had the 50-200 on the EM1 and took ten shots with S-AF, and two with MF. Guess which two were in focus.


    ISO 1600, 1/30 at 3.5, IS on....thank goodness! Taken through our double window, which is not all that clean.


    Cosmo,
    Looks interesting, but it seems to fade quickly at 600mm, which kind of defeats the purpose.
    http://petapixel.com/2014/01/20/tamr...zoom-shootout/
    Last edited by Daniel Bradley; 01-28-2014 at 01:11 AM.

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmonaut View Post
    For all you birders Tamron has a new 150-600mm available for pre order in Canon, Nikon and Sony mount.
    There's a pretty interesting review here:
    DustinAbbott.net

    Having had a Bigma, I am a little leery about this type of lens (high-telephoto, relatively inexpensive), but it certainly sounds interesting.
    Rich
    Olympus E-M10; Panasonic GM5
    m4/3 lenses: Oly 75-300; Oly 14-42 f3.5-5.6 II R; Oly 17 f1.8; Oly 40-150 f4.0-5.6 R; Oly WCON-P01 adapter; Rokinon f7.5 fisheye; Sigma 19 f2.8; Pan 20 f1.7; Pan 12-35 f2.8; Pan 12-32

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    He has certainly gone to a lot of trouble to try and do a thorough, real world kind of test. It looks quite good, and a good solution for people with restricted budgets and somewhat reduced expectations. I don't see it having much of a chance against the big white monsters, but he is fair in pointing that out, as well as the price difference. Looks like a lot of bang for the buck, and a real alternative for many.
    He misses one point, though, and that is about the aperture compared to the big guys. Aperture isn't just about f-stop and exposure. It has a lot to do with lens resolution, i.e. Dawes' limit. A 600mm lens with a front element roughly 125mm in diameter (Canon 600/5.6) is going to resolve far more detail than a 600mm with a diameter of about 95mm. That extra resolution comes at a price though, in Kg. and in $. Plus zooms are always going to lag behind primes in IQ. He admits that also.
    All in all a pretty good, informative, non-scientific review of what looks like an interesting lens. Love to get my hands on one to try it!

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Despite Godfrey's cheerleading in attempting to convince all the wildlife shooters that the EM-1 camera works better than it really does, the fact is that 80% or more of those wildlife shooters (by my estimation) can't be all wrong, or stupid, or technophobes. The rational explanation is that the EM-1 basically is a major fail in this area.

    That being the case, or my purposes I simply can't see the harm in either:

    a) sitting on the sidelines until Olympus sees fit to resurrect a proper DSLR

    b) sitting on the sidelines until Olympus gets a future micro camera to actually CAF with 4/3 lenses

    c) change to Canikon and sell all my SHGs.

    All that is down the road, however. In the meantime, I'm pretty set with the E5 for a while, as it suddenly didn't stop working.

    Leigh
    zippski

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    Godfrey,
    MF is no problem at all, in fact it is great. As you say, the VF is close to the SL, but not quite, and not when you move the camera. (It is OK with shorter focal lengths in MF, but it flickers like mad if you move while trying to AF focus.)
    ...
    I have no idea what that means ... "it flickers like mad if you move while trying to AF focus". I don't see any flickering. I see some shake and quiver ... particularly if I don't have the IBIS engaged, and more so if I have the image magnified, but I don't see any flickering. I get the same thing when I'm trying focus with a long lens on the SL, but of course there's no magnification option so there's less quiver. ??

    Nice photo!

    Frankly, IMO all this autofocus stuff is a great convenience for average subjects, but it has many limitations. Even with Canons. Even S-AF. I find it gets in the way almost as much as it helps. I still haven't found a really good reason for C-AF except in very very specific circumstances ... and I'd wager to say that shooting fast moving little dots on the screen is likely not one of them. ... ;-)

    G

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by zippski View Post
    Despite Godfrey's cheerleading in attempting to convince all the wildlife shooters that the EM-1 camera works better than it really does, the fact is that 80% or more of those wildlife shooters (by my estimation) can't be all wrong, or stupid, or technophobes. The rational explanation is that the EM-1 basically is a major fail in this area.

    That being the case, or my purposes I simply can't see the harm in either:

    a) sitting on the sidelines until Olympus sees fit to resurrect a proper DSLR

    b) sitting on the sidelines until Olympus gets a future micro camera to actually CAF with 4/3 lenses

    c) change to Canikon and sell all my SHGs.

    All that is down the road, however. In the meantime, I'm pretty set with the E5 for a while, as it suddenly didn't stop working.

    Leigh
    zippski
    Do what you feel works for you, Leigh, but saying inaccurate and misleading things about me is not acceptable behavior. There's a reason you're on my "ignore" list most of the time.

    I don't believe that all wildlife shooters should buy the E-M1. I don't really care at all about wildlife shooting anyway. I admire other people's work in this area, but it's not my interest in shooting.

    Wildlife shooting is a lot bigger area than shooting birds in flight anyway. Whether the E-M1 is a major fail in this area, based upon, what, five BIF specialists who have only gotten their E-M1 in the past few weeks and have barely had time to learn how to get the most from it yet have to say about BIF shooting is no reflection on how well it handles the other 99.9% of wildlife photography.

    Now go snootle more of your particular happy juice.

    G

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by zippski View Post
    Despite Godfrey's cheerleading in attempting to convince all the wildlife shooters that the EM-1 camera works better than it really does, the fact is that 80% or more of those wildlife shooters (by my estimation) can't be all wrong, or stupid, or technophobes. The rational explanation is that the EM-1 basically is a major fail in this area.

    That being the case, or my purposes I simply can't see the harm in either:

    a) sitting on the sidelines until Olympus sees fit to resurrect a proper DSLR

    b) sitting on the sidelines until Olympus gets a future micro camera to actually CAF with 4/3 lenses

    c) change to Canikon and sell all my SHGs.

    All that is down the road, however. In the meantime, I'm pretty set with the E5 for a while, as it suddenly didn't stop working.

    Leigh
    zippski
    I would not hold out hope that Oly will produce another dslr. I think they have already said that. Unless it was radical compared with the rest of the market, it would be another loss leader.
    I also think that Oly have done their best shot in providing CAF for the SHG lenses on m43. There is little incentive to spend further development funds for a lens system which will no longer be produced, and which have restrictive old tech motors etc. They want customers to buy the new tech m43 lenses.
    Then you have to decide whether your SHG lenses have reached their peak value now, or whether their value will tail off because bodies are no longer produced, and how long do electronic bodies last these days, or still be capable of being serviced?
    Or, as you say, keep enjoying your E-5 until it gently expires.
    Cheers,
    Don

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Godfrey,
    What happens is this: With the 50-200, (maybe also with the 14-54, have to check tomorrow morning), camera set to S-AF, IS set to 1, when I half press the shutter, the refresh rate drops way down until focus is found, (which can take a while if the light isn't really good) and everything looks like an old time movie. It flickers really badly, and it becomes really hard to concentrate on the subject. The longer the focal length, the more noticeable it is. In MF it looks OK, but there again, the longer the focal length the more you notice the normal refreshing of the EVF. I am not even taking magnification into consideration because I don't need it with AF. If I want manual I'll just set it to manual. I don't experience any of the refresh drop offs in manual, just the normal flickering when the camera moves. I don't seem to be the only one who has experienced this:
    EM-1 EVF and LCD refresh rate drops drastically indoors with C-AF: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
    By moving the camera, I don't just mean trying to keep up with the pigeons, I also mean just normal movement while taking static shots. The flickering as well as the constant changes in the brightness of the EVF are irritating to me. After ten tries to get a good clean shot of our Hawfinch this morning, I just gave up and quickly switched to MF. It least I had a clear view of him and was able to focus and get two keepers just before he took off.
    The Canon I just aim and press and tzik, the AF locks on lightning fast without searching, and then, KER-CHUNK, it takes a spot on shot. God, what a sound! The E-M1's shutter is a dream in comparison. Sweet!
    You are right. AF can sometimes be a pain in the proverbial. S-AF+MF is my preferred mode, but for flying or other fast moving objects, C-AF is great. I must confess though, I have had little experience with C-AF because it never worked for sour owl pucky on the E-30 and I never used it. I am just now, with the 5D, beginning to see how useful it can be.
    The MF on the Canon 400 is far superior to the focus by wire of the 50-200; slower, but much easier to get right. More direct and positive. Feels a little like the focus on the old 180/2.8 Elmarit-R.
    The Canon is big and heavy and clunky, like a tank, but....it gets the job done.

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Bradley View Post
    Godfrey,
    What happens is this: With the 50-200, (maybe also with the 14-54, have to check tomorrow morning), camera set to S-AF, IS set to 1, when I half press the shutter, the refresh rate drops way down until focus is found, (which can take a while if the light isn't really good) and everything looks like an old time movie. It flickers really badly, and it becomes really hard to concentrate on the subject. The longer the focal length, the more noticeable it is. In MF it looks OK, but there again, the longer the focal length the more you notice the normal refreshing of the EVF. I am not even taking magnification into consideration because I don't need it with AF. If I want manual I'll just set it to manual. I don't experience any of the refresh drop offs in manual, just the normal flickering when the camera moves. I don't seem to be the only one who has experienced this:
    EM-1 EVF and LCD refresh rate drops drastically indoors with C-AF: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
    By moving the camera, I don't just mean trying to keep up with the pigeons, I also mean just normal movement while taking static shots. The flickering as well as the constant changes in the brightness of the EVF are irritating to me. After ten tries to get a good clean shot of our Hawfinch this morning, I just gave up and quickly switched to MF. It least I had a clear view of him and was able to focus and get two keepers just before he took off.
    ...
    I haven't noticed it at all, using the same lens and torture testing it indoors in the near black of my living room at 11pm with all but one little light on, with the EC-14 fitted, at full zoom. For me, S-AF achieved consistently sharp focus and the IBIS allowed me to get consistently un-blurred results hand-held at 1/60 second ... which I find just amazing.

    I saw that thread on DPReview when it first appeared, read it, tried to replicate the problem, and couldn't. Must be some difference in camera configuration, but I don't know what it is. I don't remember all the details of how I have set up the E-M1 at this point, I'd have to walk through all the menus ...

    I know enough about Canon gear (having owned a full Canon DSLR setup about a decade ago). I didn't find their AF to be bad, but I didn't notice it as being especially wonderful either. That was a while ago ... but curiously, I see just as much complaining about their AF as I see in this thread, complaints about back focus and front focus, and slow responsiveness, etc. The Canons never had any particular problems for me, but I wasn't all that enthused about their lenses—except for the long long ones which I don't use very much. That's why I moved to other systems. Canon's forte is their long lenses, so it makes sense that BIF shooters would like them.

    G

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Well Godfrey for me it's the price paid for admission and what I expect for my money. I pay money and I don't expect to manual focus. Would you buy a luxury car if the AC only worked 80% of the time?
    in my book the E-M1 is the biggest failure for Olympus so far. $1300.00 is a lot to lay down for a camera that doesn't deliver advertised features. In today's market I can go full frame for that cost and never need to upgrade again for need of more IQ. You have the a7 surely you see a clear difference in a good EVF and a lesser quality one.
    if I pay for something to work I am not going to struggle and fiddle with it to get what I want. Not when someone else makes something for the same cost that delivers. It's not that we can't it's we expect it. As it should be.




    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I have no idea what that means ... "it flickers like mad if you move while trying to AF focus". I don't see any flickering. I see some shake and quiver ... particularly if I don't have the IBIS engaged, and more so if I have the image magnified, but I don't see any flickering. I get the same thing when I'm trying focus with a long lens on the SL, but of course there's no magnification option so there's less quiver. ??

    Nice photo!

    Frankly, IMO all this autofocus stuff is a great convenience for average subjects, but it has many limitations. Even with Canons. Even S-AF. I find it gets in the way almost as much as it helps. I still haven't found a really good reason for C-AF except in very very specific circumstances ... and I'd wager to say that shooting fast moving little dots on the screen is likely not one of them. ... ;-)

    G


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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmonaut View Post
    Well Godfrey for me it's the price paid for admission and what I expect for my money. I pay money and I don't expect to manual focus. Would you buy a luxury car if the AC only worked 80% of the time?
    in my book the E-M1 is the biggest failure for Olympus so far. $1300.00 is a lot to lay down for a camera that doesn't deliver advertised features. In today's market I can go full frame for that cost and never need to upgrade again for need of more IQ. You have the a7 surely you see a clear difference in a good EVF and a lesser quality one.
    if I pay for something to work I am not going to struggle and fiddle with it to get what I want. Not when someone else makes something for the same cost that delivers. It's not that we can't it's we expect it. As it should be.
    There's a world of difference between a luxury car and an Olympus E-M1 camera, your comparison is inappropriate, but besides that:


    • Autofocus with my FT (and mFT) lenses works very well, as or better than expected. I've used all of mine with autofocus and been delighted that they all perform as well or better than the AF did on my E-5, and on my E-1, for my uses. I don't do BIF shooting, of course. Seems to work just fine with 99% of everything else.
    • Far as they look to my eye, the EVF on the A7/A7r is an equal quality panel but the Olympus E-M1 has better viewfinder optics.
    • There is no "clear difference" in the quality of the photos the E-M1 makes compared to the A7. The A7 sensor is about a stop to a stop and a half more sensitive, and has more pixels, but in the end results are so similar that it is the nuances derivative of the difference in format or specific qualities of the lenses that can be used tell them apart. And even then it's not easy.
    • If you buy a Sony A7, you are going to struggle and fiddle with it more to get what you want as well, and there's little guarantee that it will do any better for BIF shooting (I doubt it, it's a slower and less responsive camera overall). And there are only two native mount lenses available for it. And the body-only A7 retails for $1700 vs the E-M1 at $1300. More expensive, poorer build quality, more plastic, etc etc. A good sensor, however, and a larger format.
    • $1300 for a camera of this quality and capability is cheap in my book; the E-5 was more expensive and didn't perform as well for my uses. The E-M1 is a far more refined camera than either of the (more expensive) A7 models, with more and better options, better ergonomics, etc.


    Here's my run-up of the two cameras posted to DPR in a thread which has been an interesting discussion with others who have both cameras:

    Re: A quick day out with the Olympus E-M1 and the SONY a7: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    Interesting comparison, thank you.

    I also have both cameras, although I bought them to use rather differently. I use the E-M1 with FT and mFT lenses, use AF with it most of the time, and take advantage of the automation systems quite a lot. The A7 I bought to use with my Leica R and Nikkor SLR lenses, maybe a couple of M-Mount lenses (the ones that work well with its sensor), and have it set up such that shooting with it is an experience very similar to working with a manual focus film SLR with aperture priority AE and a motor drive.


    • Since I bought only the A7 body and necessary accessories (had the lenses already), and half of my lens kit for the E-M1 I already had, I compare the price of the bodies and accessories only. So far, they're running neck and neck on system expenses ... each just over $2000 when I account for body, lens mount adapters, power accessories, grips, cable remotes, etc.
    • As you noted, shooting with the E-M1 is fast and fluid where shooting with the A7 happens at a slower pace. This is true totally independent of AF as well, I don't own an AF lens for the A7 but find that even using the E-M1 with manual focusing only proves faster and more fluid than using the A7.
    • The control organization and layout on the E-M1 is very ergonomic to my hands, and the menu design very logical and easy to remember, albeit deep with many potential interactions. The A7 controls—buttons and dials—seem rather haphazardly scattered about the camera, not nearly so swift to "fall to hand." The menu system, also pretty deep and with many interactions, is very poorly organized and difficult to remember. The A7 has fewer customization options and controls than the E-M1. All that said, I have been able to set up and customize buttons and dials on both cameras such that I rarely need to dive into the menus to get something done, and the way I have them both setup the controls are easy to use and remember.
    • The biggest thing I miss on the A7 is the E-M1's superb image stabilization system. The five-axis IBIS is truly outstanding. The A7 is also more power hungry (and let's not get into the stupid decision to only supply it with very slow in-camera battery charging ... the purchase of two external chargers and three extra batteries are almost necessary for anyone trying to use this camera for serious picture taking; enough to have a battery in the camera and a spare in the bag while the other two are being recharged.
    • The biggest thing I miss on the E-M1 is the A7's excellent implementation of manual exposure with Auto-ISO. They've got that down just right, with EV Compensation and the wide dynamic range of the larger sensor you have excellent and fine control.
    • I've been shooting with the E-M1 since October and the A7 since last week, I'm still testing lenses for the latter. So far, the lenses I have for the A7 seem to work very well with its sensor. Image quality for both cameras is outstanding, with nuance differences related to depth of field and dynamic range—ultimately all based on the difference in the sensor size. These nuance differences are rather more subtle than it might seem, I know that if I made a series of photos with both and printed them to 11x17 inch, I would be hard-pressed to tell which camera made which photo other than because of lens/format characteristics. I would not buy either camera expecting a quantum change in image quality.


    The E-M1 satisfies 99% of my shooting needs, and it could be 100%. So why did I spend the money for the A7? Because the Leica R lenses are truly wonderful and I found that using them on smaller format sensors did not bring out their best like using them with the original Leicaflex SL film camera did. The A7 does: photos made with the Summicron-R 90mm on film and with the A7 have the same lovely character. There is room for both formats in the visual language..

    The E-M1 succeeds best because of its outstanding control ergonomics, wide customization options, superb lens line, fast and responsive handling and operation, and the very very good sensor. The A7 succeeds best because of its format, the outstanding sensor performance, and adaptability to use with many many wonderful older lenses. I'm happy to have and work with both cameras.
    I guess the many users who are delighted with the E-M1's capabilities and performance don't count, it must be an Olympus failure. Pah. But if you feel that way, you should dump your Olympus gear while it's still worth something and buy something more satisfying to you.

    Myself, I'll just enjoy using both of them for their strengths, avoid the weaknesses, and make photographs. If I all of a sudden am overwhelmed with the desire to shoot BIF, I'll buy a Nikon or Canon ...

    G
    Last edited by Godfrey; 01-28-2014 at 11:40 PM.

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    Default Re: EM1 + Big Tuna&2x tele& autofocus = meltdown and an order of an E5

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    There's a world of difference between a luxury car and a camera, your comparison is inappropriate, but besides that:


    • Myself, I'll just enjoy using both of them for their strengths, avoid the weaknesses, and make photographs. If I all of a sudden am overwhelmed with the desire to shoot BIF, I'll buy a Nikon or Canon ...

      G
    • Godfrey opines (once again demonstrating an inability to, ahem, *ignore* either Cosmo or me (yes, I am hard to ignore ), ;-)) but he is flat out wrong here, but perhaps (and I know I'm goin' out on a big limb here) too full of himself to see it. Yes, a car is not an automobile, but the principle stated is entirely correct. Proof: Subtitute the word "camera for "luxury car" and "focus for "air conditioning" in the sentence and the gist is identical.

      I think what really irks most users like me are two things:

      1. The significant degradation in suitability of the em-1 in comparison to the e-5 and the cost of switching systems

      2. Most important, however, is the fact that with the em-1, Olympus essentially gave the finger to its most dedicated, heavily invested gear purchasers to satisfy those that are lower on the gear-buying food chain.

      Point number 2 is what grates on this end - can you ever imagine Canikon telling its pro gear buyers to "go pound sand/go elsewhere" like Olympus I currently doing? Not a chance.

      And while we are on that topic, the Godfrey comment stream (river?) (flood?) essentially says that to me as well. I'm not a whiny internet crybaby and love a good argument (remember I make my living arguing) but I have to say I'm officially at the eye-rolling stage wading through the guy's escalating attempts at preaching from the em-1 pulpit.

      Leigh
      zippksi

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