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Thread: A Net Exodus?

  1. #151
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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Speaking for only myself, because I still shoot 4/3 and m4/3 as well as Nikon APS-C and FF.

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It's the present, not the future. :-)
    Not as long as my favorite -4/3 bodies and lenses are in the shop and not in my bag

    But you are right; I have been a 80-90% -4/3 shooter for 3 years now.
    flickr | "God made the integers; all else is the work of man" - Leopold Kronecker

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    I don't come here very often these days (not that i ever posted much anyway...) largely because all I seem to hear is whining about how awful Olympus is.

    Olympus have moved in to making a "second camera" system for the pros, or a "better than P&S" for the plebs. Perhaps they made a mistake in the advertising for the E-M1 - I don't know, I never saw any. But the reality is that they could never compete with the big two for the professional market, although I think the SHG lenses are the best available at the price point, and the E-5 holds itself very well compared to other cameras of a similar price. So they invented a new niche: a smaller body, smaller lenses, for the same quality of output. The sort of thing you can take on a hike, or when you are walking round a new city. The sort of camera that can lie on the top of the camera bag and by whipped out for that quick candid shot, rather than lift the big body out.

    I'm not their target audience for this - as I've said before, my eyes don't work well with an EVF. I'm reaping the benefit at the moment of finding some bargains in the SHG range, but the fact that Olympus are no longer selling to me doesn't mean that my bodies and lenses have stopped working. I'm taking more photographs than ever now, and I'm very happy with my system. If you aren't, fine: there are plenty of other kinds of camera available to you, including (*gasp*) m4/3, or Canon, or Nikon, or Sony or Pentax. The only time I will consider moving on to another system is when Olympus stop repairing my kit.

    In other words, can we *please* stop complaining that "ohh, Olympus have let me down". No they haven't, they've moved on. Now, either move with them, move to another system, or be content with what you've got.
    Thomas
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  4. #154
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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    You know Thomas, I was very active here back along, and then took about a four year hiatus from photography. Back in those days, I stayed away from 'the other place' because it just seemed so contentious and negative. Things seem to have flip-flopped, at least to some extent. Its a shame, really. I mean, I get it....I really do, I understand the angst. But life is too short, and photography is *potentially* too rewarding and just too darned much fun to squander on being unhappy. What Olympus has done system-wise is a done deal, and is at least keeping the photo division going for now, and it wouldn't still be here at all if they hadn't done something different.
    Nate

    "There's only one rule in photography - never develop colour film in chicken noodle soup." - Freeman Patterson

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Quote Originally Posted by srtgray View Post
    I don't come here very often these days (not that i ever posted much anyway...) largely because all I seem to hear is whining about how awful Olympus is.
    ...
    In other words, can we *please* stop complaining that "ohh, Olympus have let me down". No they haven't, they've moved on. Now, either move with them, move to another system, or be content with what you've got.
    A thousand times "yes", I agree.

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Best to say this here than starting a new thread. Farewell folks, sold my last Olympus equipment and I'm moving on. I have thoroughly enjoyed this forum and may check in from time to time but I know all that say this eventually quit coming. This forum and a number of you have been a tremendous help to me over the years and for that I'm forever in your debt. That help will carrying over regardless of what I shoot. Take care all and good shooting to you.


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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Happy trails, Will!

    Cheers,

    Rick

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Adios, amigo!

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Best of luck Will.
    Lawrence

    All of the images I post are open for critique. Feel free to modify one of my images if it helps the critique.

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Hate to keep being proven right, but it sure looks so:

    From 4/3rumours:

    The bad news is even with the small increase the situation is quite worse compared to previous years:



    Mirrorless is still not doing well in American and European markets. It’s mainly Asia that loves them



    And this excerpted comment sums it up well:



    I think we can make some predictions if we follow the trends:

    The "DSLR is dead" is dead. After six years the DSLR is still viable and mirrorless is making no noticeable growth. That's fine, there is entirely no reason the two consumer toys can't co-exist, and the meme was always just an internet shill game anyway. Image production technology has hit a plateau of excellence. Product churn has not resulted in significant improvement, just vendors trying to me-to each other with old-timey designs. The trends show continued loss in sales and volumes. There is no reason to think this trend will end. The result is that a couple of the big players may out of the camera business in 18 months. The cynical product pricing strategy by the marketing departments has gone about as far as it can. That is, deliberately underproducing (to create 'excitement') at launch while overpricing it, then skimming down the next pricing layer every 3-6 months until the follow on non-improved product is introduced. Remaindering the stock after 18 months and causing the consumer's "investment" to plummet in value is not a long-term approach.



    My views are not changing in the time passes. If anything, I am realizing that my reservations were spot on.

    So, if Olympus makes a DSLR that works and handles well with my SHG 4/3 lens ahhhm ".....investment", I will buy back in. If not, I'm permanently out.


    Leigh
    zippskI

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Yes, but look at the trend for mirrorless cameras shipped by itself. It's true that it hasn't improved over 2 years but its not declining.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by jgspitler; 05-02-2014 at 06:49 AM. Reason: The graph didn't get inserted the first time.

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    I was unable to comment for most of the time I have been on the site due to my ISP blocking emails. I too, am exiting the Olympus clan. I now own a 60d and the sigma 17-50 f2.8 The E-620 was my first and only dslr and has served me well for the better part of 3 years. Unlike most of you I was pretty much sure it was a dead system when I purchased mine. I loved the 14-54 and my 40-150 was sharp as a tack. As I transition into the canon camp I have started to find things I am going to miss and things I am not going to miss. The 4/3 format was well conceived, the squarer crop allowed me to comfortably shoot people with a much wide lens without much distortion. There is no lens that covers that effective focal length in canon or nikon with a fast aperture. The sigma 17-70 being the closest and it isnt close. The fact that my 620 wasn't software crippled was a nice feature, Canon charging $600 for IS on a 70-200f4 should be against the law. Things I wont miss, the noise, the slow focus in poor light, the menus that were written in english but using greek words People asking, Does olympus still make cameras? Oh, and the noise. I have learned a lot from everyone's comments and wish everyone well.

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    I don't ever plan on selling any of my Olympus equipment. Nor my old Minolta film camera. I do plan on adding FF mirrorless in the future. There's not just one format that suits all needs.

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Quote Originally Posted by jgspitler View Post
    Yes, but look at the trend for mirrorless cameras shipped by itself. It's true that it hasn't improved over 2 years but its not declining.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That graph deserves further analysis.


    An important point being overlooked, and the 800 pound gorilla in the room, is the fact that while all camera sales have declined worldwide, the biggest drop has been the old style DSLR. Two years ago, mirrorless sales were only about 10% of the amount of dslr sales. Now that has doubled to about 20% of the dslr sales. The fact that they have doubled their market penetration in two years can not be brushed off, as market share is very important in any industry. In studying the trends, the dslr is definitely on a downward overall spiral. The demographics are working against all traditional cameras, as the younger generations use their smartphones, etc rather than separate cameras. Most of us current dslr users, myself included, are the old guys. The younger generations are not gravitating to the big and bulky cameras. Mirrorless buyers are younger than the dslr buyers, and that trend will probably continue. You can argue all you want about the superiority of dslr over mirrorless, but you can't erase the fact that dslr sales are currently only half of what they were a just a couple of years ago, while mirrorless sales have remained relatively stable. And the decision of Olympus to concentrate on mirrorless appears to be the best choice for their survival.
    Steven R
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    E-330, E-520, E-3

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Not sure what graph you are looking at Steven. When looking at the SAME MONTH year over year, I see (other than about 4 months of anomolous high spikes in 2012) pretty stable DSLR sales year over year. Maybe 100K unit declines. OTOH, look at same month mirrorless sales year over year -they are also trending LOWER other than about 4 anomolous months. Main point is they are really BOTH trending lower, which is not what the mirrorless hype-artists would have you believe. And this not what you want to happen when you introduce new tech.

    Leig
    zippski

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Quote Originally Posted by zippski View Post
    Not sure what graph you are looking at Steven. When looking at the SAME MONTH year over year, I see (other than about 4 months of anomolous high spikes in 2012) pretty stable DSLR sales year over year. Maybe 100K unit declines. OTOH, look at same month mirrorless sales year over year -they are also trending LOWER other than about 4 anomolous months. Main point is they are really BOTH trending lower, which is not what the mirrorless hype-artists would have you believe. And this not what you want to happen when you introduce new tech.

    Leig
    zippski
    The graph came from the very same article you posted your graph from above (43 Rumors). Steve R is correct. Assuming the data is correct mirrorless sales have stayed stable.

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    No, mirrorless sales have not stayed stable. From Thom Hogan:

    Olympus reported their full fiscal year results today (May 9th), and the news is grim for the Imaging group. I’ve updated my overall article about the industry on dslrbodies.com and my Claims to Remember on this site, but let me give you the short version:




    • Olympus failed to meet their m4/3 camera expectationss mirrorless sales by Olympus (540k units). This represents almost exactly a 15% share of the CIPA mirrorless shipment numbers for the same period.
    • Olympus lost money at cameras (again)ve given a negative assessment for the coming year: they expect another significant loss in the coming year.
    • One third of the cameras Olympus is selling are going into Japan, and that was down 5%. All other markets were down in double digits.
    • SG&A costs are still above 50%. Overhead, marketing and selling those cameras costs them more than making them does.
    • Olympus will sell less in the coming year than last. m reading the numbers right, Olympus expects to sell about 1.5m totals current forecast, that represents 3.1%.
    • s in the first quarter. This was half what they expected, due to manufacturing delays. So they still would have missed their unit goal significantly (550k implied).
    • Olympus plans on growth in the coming year with m4/3. s as the plan, with 40% in the first half of the year, 60% in the second.
    • Olympus has significant m4/3 inventory. 250,000 units in inventory [source: Q&A], which is basically half what they sold in the last fiscal year.
    • ” s a little tricky to get to that number, as you have to infer a number of things from what they did say.

    Make of that what you will. My take is that Olympus simply hasn’t cracked the code that will make them money and grow their camera business. That’s a shame, because the EM-1 and EM-10 are very nice cameras (reviews coming), and Olympus has a fine set of lenses.


    Hey, I can crack the code for you, Olympus. Bring the E7 out of mothballs so I have a camera to buy that works properly with my 4/3 lenses, and, you know, that I can use to take sunset photo without eating the EVF, or something.

    Leigh
    zippski

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Quote Originally Posted by zippski View Post
    Hey, I can crack the code for you, Olympus. Bring the E7 out of mothballs so I have a camera to buy that works properly with my 4/3 lenses, and, you know, that I can use to take sunset photo without eating the EVF, or something.
    I am sorry if I am raining on your parade, but I do not think that bringing out an E7 will save Olympus. They will simply not sell enough of them to make a difference.

    I am not sure if Olympus is in as a deep hole as Thom Hogan thinks, either.
    flickr | "God made the integers; all else is the work of man" - Leopold Kronecker

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsi42 View Post
    I am not sure if Olympus is in as a deep hole as Thom Hogan thinks, either.
    People have been predicting Olympus's demise for years, and years, and years.

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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    With the new firmware update today, I'm curious as to how much better the 4/3 lenses work. Unfortunately I sold all mine.
    Clint
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    Default Re: So, where's that E-7 Olympus?

    My take on all this is a bit different--I'm price constrained. That is, no money in the budget for new toys. Right now, I want a 14-35 lens, not a new body. I have an e5 with grip and still have well less than 25,000 clicks on it--so it should last me for years to come. I lug lots of stuff--tripod, 35-100, 12-60, and old OM 500mm f8, 50-200swd--this is what I consider my standard hiking load. I shoot mostly with the 35-100 and 12-60, but use the 50-200 for a lot of my landscape images (I shoot mountains and like the closer view, not so much wider angles). If Olympus were to go belly-up in the camera dept, I think I would be quite happy to find true bargains as people fled to other systems. Perhaps a low-count e5 or em1 for something under $300 (or whatever newer model might appear); my 14-35 desire in the same price range, etc. I don't need anything new in body to shoot what I like to shoot. What I have works well--although I'm quite sure the 14-35 would be more useful for portraits than the 12-60--love that f2 setting on my 35-100!
    http://hestamm.zenfolio.com
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    Default Re: A Net Exodus

    A few days ago the wall Street Journal had an article about Nikon problems caused by the positive growth of mirrorless cameras and the declining sales of the traditional DSLR.
    http://online.wsj.com/articles/heard...ors-1403173573

    Per the Wall Street Journal on June 19, 2014:
    "The digital camera market is in sharp decline as smartphones spread. Compact cameras have been hit hardest, but Nikon's professional-grade cameras are also suffering.


    The market shows growth in just one category: "mirrorless" cameras. They are smaller and cheaper than DSLRs—which use mirrors to reflect images onto the camera's view finder—but like them offer high image quality and the versatility of interchangeable lenses. For consumers, mirrorless models make for a good upgrade from a smartphone camera, without breaking the bank.
    In the first four months of this year, shipments of mirrorless cameras by Japanese companies were up 12% from a year earlier, according to the Camera and Imaging Products Association. Measured by revenue, mirrorless sales globally were up 39%, likely due to a shift toward higher-end models. Over the same period, shipments were down 42% for compact cameras and 17% for DSLRs.:

    Nikon was among the last of major Japanese makers to release a mirrorless camera, and still offers only a handful of models. The company likely fears cannibalization of its high-end DSLRs, but its strategy seems not to be working. Nikon's camera division, more than two-thirds of the company, posted a 9% revenue decline for the year through March. As a company that weathered the transition from film to digital, it should know better than to stand against the technological tide. Sony, 6758.TO 0.00% Olympus andPanasonic 6752.TO 0.00% are leading in the new field.
    Nikon's solution to its flagging stock price—down 35% over the past year—seems rash. Incoming chief executive Kazuo Ushida said the company plans to dive into medical equipment, in which it has no expertise, and has earmarked $2 billion to acquire companies in this space over the next three years. But Nikon may have missed the party. Several other Japanese companies, including Hitachi 6501.TO +1.09% and Toshiba,6502.TO +0.21% have expressed medical ambitions, while rival Olympus is already a global leader in medical imaging, as well as in mirrorless cameras.

    At 14 times forward earnings, in line with its average over the past four years, Nikon's shares hardly seem a bargain. To revive its image among investors, the company needs to focus on making cameras that consumers actually want to buy......"

    In addition to the above article, they have also recently had articles on mirrorless cameras sales declining much less than DSLRs, and also an article on how Nikon is planning to get into the medical market because of shrinking profit from their cameras.

    All in all, my personal opinion is this is just more growing proof that Olympus did the best course of action to save the company by embracing the mirrorless camera as the camera of the future.
    Steven R
    Tampa, Florida

    E-330, E-520, E-3

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    Default Re: A Net Exodus

    Now, if they could just sort out their rather serious E-M1 EVF burn problem.... word IS getting around about it. I'm not the only one who has been "burned" by it. "Small" problem, but a big threat to sales. Who will want to buy a camera that can't safely be used in the sun?

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    Default Re: A Net Exodus

    Yes, I hate to admit it here, but I opted to buy a Canon SL1 plus kit lens as a lightweight travel setup, instead of my planned Olympus EM-10, partly because of what looked to me to be growing pains (i.e. new equipment whose problems haven't been shaken out yet) with the EM lineup.

    I had been thinking against the very small SL1 mainly because the lenses are much larger (except a few like the 18-55 kit and a 40mm pancake), and I didn't want to be using a kit lens. But then I realized that I was thinking of getting the kit lens with the EM-10 too (again for size and weight), so I changed my mind back to the SL1 and got it. I do still frequent this forum for other reasons (like the people, discussions, etc), but Olympus is kind of not going anywhere with me for now, unfortunately.
    Rich
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    Default Re: A Net Exodus

    Quote Originally Posted by RAH View Post
    Yes, I hate to admit it here, but I opted to buy a Canon SL1 plus kit lens as a lightweight travel setup, instead of my planned Olympus EM-10, partly because of what looked to me to be growing pains (i.e. new equipment whose problems haven't been shaken out yet) with the EM lineup.

    I had been thinking against the very small SL1 mainly because the lenses are much larger (except a few like the 18-55 kit and a 40mm pancake), and I didn't want to be using a kit lens. But then I realized that I was thinking of getting the kit lens with the EM-10 too (again for size and weight), so I changed my mind back to the SL1 and got it. I do still frequent this forum for other reasons (like the people, discussions, etc), but Olympus is kind of not going anywhere with me for now, unfortunately.
    Well, I am not sure about the EM-10, but I do have the E-M5, and I have smashed it against stuff, dropped it, bent buttons, scratched it... I have been to Cambodia, Thailand in wet season, and Indonesia for over 2 months, as well as Spain, France, Italy for months more, and I spend winters in -20C to -30C weather. It has never failed to work one bit. I even use the non-weather sealed lenses in light rain and snow.

    Also, firstly, the EM-10 + kit lens is just as big as the Canon SL1 body only.
    http://camerasize.com/compact/#448.23,521.409,ha,t

    Secondly, the EM-10 has two dials along with the mode dial. That means in A mode you can change aperture and exposition without pressing additional buttons. In M mode, you can change aperture with one and shutter speed with the other. For me this was a HUGE upgrade over the Olympus E-620 where I basically never used M mode because it was so cumbersome.

    Honestly, if you want to compare a Canon SL1 with an Olympus body, a more realistic comparison is with an Olympus E-PL5.

    Not to mention that the Olympus is also better at, well, everything:
    http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compa...___937_871_840

    better digital range, better high ISO, better color depth, smaller, lower weight, more direct controls

    MSRP:
    Canon + kit lens: $749
    Olympus EM-10 + kit lens: $799

    I see that the street price of the Canon has fallen, and I can see why
    Olympus E-M1 Mk II
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