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Thread: Olympus full frame

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    Default Olympus full frame

    I saw on a rumours site that Olympus has patented a full frame lens.
    If this turns out to be Olympus's entry to ff, would you follow?

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    No.
    Steven R
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    No. Please note there is a difference between "full size" and "full frame". A lot is lost in translation.
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    I would be interested, but its all a matter of price.

    If full frame cameras and lenses cost the same as Sony's, I'm going to have to pass. I mostly take pictures while traveling, and I'm not really comfortable carrying a bag of $5000 worth of electronics while hiking in Argentina. An E-M5 + 12-40 is already more than pretty much anyone carries these days.

    At the same time, you can't deny m4/3 is in a hard place. Larger sensor alternatives are now producing cameras that are the same size as m4/3, only lenses are smaller. So people are wondering, why buy the smaller sensor?
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    Give me a break! I'm still haven't finished converting from 4/3 to m4/3.
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    I don't think 4/3 is in a hard place - the smaller sensor size has some real benefits like lower total weight and sensible pricing. And the image quality is now very good indeed.

    I feel that FF is not really a big enough step up - the interesting stuff is happing in the Medium format now. Hasselblad has released a mirrorless MF camera now, and Fuji will probably release one later this year. They are expensive, but not that more expensive than the Pro FF stuff.

    But too expensive for me; I rather use the money on travelling
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmunds View Post
    Larger sensor alternatives are now producing cameras that are the same size as m4/3, only lenses are smaller. So people are wondering, why buy the smaller sensor?
    I think the lens size is the major selling point (next to price). If you look at the interesting lenses for the Sony A7*, they are almost as big as the FF DSLR versions - if you have a few lenses, you will still need a large bag and a strong back ... The Fuji system is a better match then; there you have a choice between small and big lenses. But both systems are more expensive than -4/3.

    Edit: A link I would like to share: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...-the-love.html
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    Lens size is definitely why I am with m4/3.

    But this is getting harder and harder to justify. My main lens is the 12mm f/2.0 and now Panasonic has come out with a 12mm f/1.4 that I have been eagerly awaiting. Except its the same size as the Fuji 16mm f/1.4 and it costs $1300, which is $300 more than the Fuji. Same thing when you compare the Panasonic 42.5mm f/1.2 and the Fuji 56mm f/1.2 - the Fuji is same size and cheaper. The X-T1 is also not really that different from the E-M1 size or price wise, and yet it has a sensor twice the size.

    Also, the classic nifty fity, Panasonic 25mm f/1.4 vs Fuji 35mm f/1.4 - same camera class, same field of view, same aperture
    http://camerasize.com/compact/#289.352,520.408,ha,t
    So why does one of these cameras have a sensor twice the size of the other?

    This is why m4/3 is in a hard place. On one hand, mobile phones are literally taking over. None of my family or friends even use a camera anymore these days. On the other hand, for the serious amateur, there are excellent APS-C options from Sony and Fuji that are hardly bigger than m4/3. So m4/3 is relegated to this small niche of "good enough" lenses, like the Olympus 45mm f/1.8, Panasonic 20mm f/1.7, Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8, Olympus 9-18mm, etc. But if I was looking to spend $1000+ on a lens I wouldn't do it on m4/3.

    Telephotos are of course a different story. The 2x crop helps there tremendously.
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    For me it is a mixture of when is good enough, good enough (image quality wise), plus the ergonomics of the system. I have an EM1 and my shooting buddy has a Nikon 810. You could not pay me to swap to the Nikon, it is like a brick compared to the EM1.
    I grant you that under testing printing circumstances the Nikon might blow the Oly out of the water, but I don't do huge prints or offset printing, both of which I am told are very demanding of the source image.
    Also, I have read that 4/3 surpassed the quality of medium format film some years ago, so I doubt that my needs will ever outgrow the quality I have at hand.
    As they say "no matter how much money you have, someone has a bigger boat".
    So would I jump to Oly FF? No.
    Then again the new Hassleblad 50mp mirrorless looks fantastic

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    I recall the consensus of the thread (but I only skimmed a few articles) that Olympus was designing the lens under contract to Sony. Presumably a tit-for-tat deal where Olympus does something in its wheelhouse (design lenses) in exchange for something in Sony's (new sensor, or even, getting to the head of the line for the existing sensors).

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    No from me too - I took a jump to FF a couple of years ago (with a 6D) and have not regretted it. I still have the 4/3 and m4/3 kit that I never sold and use it for what it is good at, which is quite a lot, I did wonder about part exchanging it and getting a good telephoto for the Canon but when it came to the crunch I could not part with it! So I am still wondering it I can afford a big white.

    As has been said if I really wanted the ultimate quality I would go for the new 'blad

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    It wouldn't make sense at all. Unless they beat physics and design an adapter that takes existing 4/3 and m4/3 lenses. Or design a whole new fleet of lenses and lose a fortune!
    And Olympus have just got back to their core philosophy.
    Don

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Meissner View Post
    I recall the consensus of the thread (but I only skimmed a few articles) that Olympus was designing the lens under contract to Sony. Presumably a tit-for-tat deal where Olympus does something in its wheelhouse (design lenses) in exchange for something in Sony's (new sensor, or even, getting to the head of the line for the existing sensors).
    That would make more sense than Oly going FF.

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Roberts View Post
    I saw on a rumours site that Olympus has patented a full frame lens.
    If this turns out to be Olympus's entry to ff, would you follow?
    I'd pass on it because of the price; I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap.
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmunds View Post
    Lens size is definitely why I am with m4/3.

    But this is getting harder and harder to justify...

    So why does one of these cameras have a sensor twice the size of the other?
    I agree that it is the lens size that makes m43 desirable. It also does seem that the higher-quality lenses are all really big, so you lose the advantage.

    I've noticed for a long time that for most manufacturers, whenever they design a high-quality lens, they give it a large aperture - a fast lens. That seems to be the top priority, for obvious reasons, I suppose. And a fast lens usually means a large lens, especially how fat it is.

    So I am thinking what m43 really needs is high-quality MEDIUM speed lenses. I mean, for example, why can't we have a 40-150 f4-5.6 that has better optics and therefore better IQ. I'd pay an extra $200 for such an animal. Instead of offering me a huge constant f2.8 version at an astronomical price! I suppose there are some lenses that fit the bill, but not nearly enough, IMHO.

    This isn't unique to Olympus. I mean Canon does the same thing, it seems to me. But when they DO offer a not-so-fast HQ lens, it is usually very popular, the most obvious example being the Canon 400mm f5.6L lens - smaller than the fast grey giants, very high quality, and MUCH (MUCH) cheaper.
    Rich
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by RAH View Post
    I agree that it is the lens size that makes m43 desirable. It also does seem that the higher-quality lenses are all really big, so you lose the advantage.

    I've noticed for a long time that for most manufacturers, whenever they design a high-quality lens, they give it a large aperture - a fast lens. That seems to be the top priority, for obvious reasons, I suppose. And a fast lens usually means a large lens, especially how fat it is.

    So I am thinking what m43 really needs is high-quality MEDIUM speed lenses. I mean, for example, why can't we have a 40-150 f4-5.6 that has better optics and therefore better IQ. I'd pay an extra $200 for such an animal. Instead of offering me a huge constant f2.8 version at an astronomical price! I suppose there are some lenses that fit the bill, but not nearly enough, IMHO.

    This isn't unique to Olympus. I mean Canon does the same thing, it seems to me. But when they DO offer a not-so-fast HQ lens, it is usually very popular, the most obvious example being the Canon 400mm f5.6L lens - smaller than the fast grey giants, very high quality, and MUCH (MUCH) cheaper.
    Couldn't agree more! I'd love to have a 12-60mm f/4 for travel that is actually sharp at f/4 like the 12-40mm f/2.8 is at f/2.8. I can't really justify carrying fast primes AND fast zooms, so I have to pick either or, and I usually pick the primes. But I'd be willing to carry slow zooms and 1-2 fast primes, but the kit lenses don't really appeal to me.

    I am guessing the real issue is that you can't really demand premium prices for these type of lenses, yet its quite likely that actually the manufacturing cost of a high quality f/4 zoom isn't really that different from an f/2.8 zoom.
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    The other day a walked past a camera shop that had a good display of FF cameras and lenses in their window. I shuddered at the thought of carrying those monsters in my backpack. If I had to make a living by it, maybe but for fun, definitely not.
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    I guess that for me, if I wanted Full Frame, I have had ample opportunities to change already. For the last few years I have had the ability to purchase anything I want in FF from Nikon, Canon, Sony and now Pentax. I have no problem with their gear. Why would I invest in a new system just because Olympus releases one?

    On the other hand if in a few years I decide that I need full frame in my arsenal for some reason - it won't hurt if my choice can be made based on Olympus being part of the mix but if not, I'll get a Nikon or whatever works best for me. But the fact is that I don't shoot micro 4/3 because I feel restricted by that being all that Olympus provides. I have all choices already and can move into ff anytime I want. I have chosen micro 4/3 for the benefits it gives me, not because Olympus doesn't offer a FF system.

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by RAH View Post
    So I am thinking what m43 really needs is high-quality MEDIUM speed lenses. I mean, for example, why can't we have a 40-150 f4-5.6 that has better optics and therefore better IQ. I'd pay an extra $200 for such an animal. Instead of offering me a huge constant f2.8 version at an astronomical price! I suppose there are some lenses that fit the bill, but not nearly enough, IMHO.
    I see that you have the 40-150 kit lens listed in your gear in your signature. I have to ask - have you ever really put that lens to work? I use it regularly and find it a surprisingly wonderful optic. It could be that your subject matter is far more demanding than mine for this range of lens. Then the 40-150 f2.8 fits the bill. My 40-150 kit lens doesn't sit on the shelf - it's a daily companion.

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    Robert, I didn't mean to make it sound like I do not like the 40-150 f4-5.6 m43 lens. I do use it and like it fine. I was just trying to explain what I meant where I thought they could make a lens that had even better optics but the same f-stops. Since I am not all that familiar with the high-grade lenses (too rich for my blood!), I just grabbed one example of a lens where people complain about the large size of the high-grade version. Wouldn't an f4-5.6 version of the high-grade lens be even sharper than the kit? I should think.
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    For me, a larger format is not the answer.
    I find that I am, primarily, a telephoto shooter. For size and price, FF simply cannot compete.
    Image quality wise; I'm very satisfied with what I get. So satisfied, in fact, that I still use only original 4/3rd gear.

    To my mind, most of the FF hype comes from marketing departments to create sales; the carrot dangling off the end of a stick; the grass is greener; yada, yada, yada.
    Are there advantages, yes.
    Are there disadvantages, absolutely.
    Has anyone complained that my images would have looked better if they had been captured with a FF; not even once. As a matter of fact, I've enjoyed the look of astonishment, on other photographers' faces, when I tell them my cameras of choice are lowly Olympi's in the 10 and 12 mp range, not FF.

    My gear suits me fine. I have all the gear I need. Why should I change just to fit in with the cookie cutter crowd?
    Capturing the beauty of nature, one frame at a time.

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by RAH View Post
    I agree that it is the lens size that makes m43 desirable. It also does seem that the higher-quality lenses are all really big, so you lose the advantage.

    I've noticed for a long time that for most manufacturers, whenever they design a high-quality lens, they give it a large aperture - a fast lens. That seems to be the top priority, for obvious reasons, I suppose. And a fast lens usually means a large lens, especially how fat it is.

    So I am thinking what m43 really needs is high-quality MEDIUM speed lenses. I mean, for example, why can't we have a 40-150 f4-5.6 that has better optics and therefore better IQ. I'd pay an extra $200 for such an animal. Instead of offering me a huge constant f2.8 version at an astronomical price! I suppose there are some lenses that fit the bill, but not nearly enough, IMHO.

    This isn't unique to Olympus. I mean Canon does the same thing, it seems to me. But when they DO offer a not-so-fast HQ lens, it is usually very popular, the most obvious example being the Canon 400mm f5.6L lens - smaller than the fast grey giants, very high quality, and MUCH (MUCH) cheaper.
    Looks like our prayers have been answered. 43 rumors just posted a supposedly confirmed rumor that an Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 zoom will come out this autumn! Not sure what the size and price would be, most likely not much different from the 12-40 f/2.8, but if it is sharp at f/4, then this is going to be the ultimate travel lens.
    Olympus OM-D EM-5
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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    "My gear suits me fine. I have all the gear I need. Why should I change just to fit in with the cookie cutter crowd?"

    I agree 1000 % Stan,
    For my needs ...I have the entire 4/3 SHG and HG lens collection, except the 300f2.8, and the E-3 and 5, which when I need, produce excellent files AND plenty large prints!
    I have been using the 14-35 SWD with the E-3 exclusively to do art reproduction in my business, it is that good! The E-5 really doesn't get as much use as I'd like to give it, but it is paid for. The EM-1 12-40 and 40-150 F2.8 Pros are my travel and quick grab kit, and I am done with any future upgrading!
    FF was tempting once, but not anymore ;-)

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    I met a pro several months ago and attended a demonstration he did. The most valuable lesson I learned is it's the operator, not the equipment. He had an older 10mp camera and there was some duct tape on the lens and camera holding it together.

    He takes great photographs.

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    Default Re: Olympus full frame

    I just went from 4/3 to M4/3 3 years ago and must say I am very happy with what I can do with the OMD's. Main reason to the OMD is smaller and lighter cameras, also the lenses are (not all though) smaller and lighter as well. Especially when travelling and hiking through cities it's very convenient to lug some kilos less than I was used with the E-5 and the ED lenses. Also I don't do much business anymore so no need to "upgrade" to all the new stuff anymore. When the new E-M1 II comes, it might be worth for me in a year or 2, but another system, and then most probably bigger and heavier? Definitively a NO.
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